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In First Post Election Meeting, ‘Achdus Team’ Shows no Achdus

In the first post election meeting members of each side sat down with Rabbi Avrohom Rosenberg in the offices of the Vaad Hakohol to discuss the elections and its outcome. Members of the ‘Achdus Team’, who were the ones to call for the meeting, gave various suggestions from remaining in office throughout the summer, to calling for new elections, and even refusing to work with individual Vaad members.

The ‘Achdus Team’ was ousted in last weeks elections by a resounding vote from a record turnout, but has since remained in office and showed no signs of willing to move out and move on.

Before the meeting began a number of residents and activists turned up for the meeting, but the Poltorak group refused to come in to the meeting if it was open to the public, and even attempted to cancel it just hours before. Rabbi Rosenberg would not hear of it and ordered that the meeting go on as scheduled.

After arguing back and forth both sides agreed to close the meeting and have only a number of representatives from each side attend along with the candidates.

Rabbi Abba Paltiel, a Mashpia sided with the Poltorak group, was the first to speak and raised a number of issues, first calling the Zabl”o Beis Din’s jurisdiction into question on the matter of them being allowed to call for elections. He also called the Beis Din’s authority to override the bylaws into question, and accused them of bowing to pressure from Rabbi Osdoba who he claimed threatened to boycott the elections if he did not get his way. He concluded with taking issue with Zaki Tamir’s statement regarding woman being allowed to vote. Paltiel concluded with saying that the entire elections need to be voided and the Poltorak Vaad should remain.

Rabbi Rosenberg responded and refuted each one of his claims, saying that the Beis Din did in fact have the necessary jurisdiction to call for the elections, and that according to the psak they identified issues with the bylaws that need to be addressed, and that there was never any such pressure from Rabbi Osdoba.

Each side then suggested ideas what to do for the interim until the newly elected Vaad can be established by a runoff elections. One of the fantastic suggestions came from Elie Poltorak who said that his Vaad should remain until after the summer, when the runoff will take place. And he added that they would be willing to include Tamir in their Vaad.

Tamir said that it did not make sense to work with a Vaad that has an open challenge to working with him, and it would render him useless and unproductive.

Another idea was raised recommending that Tamir along with all three runner-up’s, Yossi Hackner, Fishel Brownstein and Shea Hecht, all take office immediately and once there is runoffs the looser will just drop out of office.

Speaking for Brownstein, Poltorak said that he will not sit in any interim vaad alongside Shea Hecht, nor will he take part in any runoff alongside him. Brownstein then stood up and walked out. Mendy Hendel followed Brownstein, and returned a short while later with him and informed Rabbi Rosenberg that he actually didn’t make up his mind yet. He was given till 6:00pm today to make up his mind.

The issue of the recount was raised again with the Osdoba side demanding a recount of the ballots, stating that there is no harm in recounting, and if not for the late hour Monday morning when the first tally was completed they would have recounted on the spot. Poltorak argued that the bylaws are not clear who can demand a recount, and objected.

Poltorak raised another claim stating that the elections were unfair to him and his running mates and they were at a disadvantage because the Beis Din did not vindicate them, and allowed for a campaign calling him and Chanina Sperlin Mossrim. Rabbi Rosenberg responded in saying that the matter was not part of the Din Torah, and it was not their job to vindicated him or not, and that alone would take weeks and months to determine if they are Mosrim or not.

One of those who was present at the meeting told CrownHeights.info “it is obvious what Poltorak’s tactics are, they want to stall and try to remain in office as long as possible.” Adding that he hopes Rabbi Rosenberg sees through it and will finally seal this chapter for good.

The meeting concluded at around 4:00pm and Rabbi Rosenberg is set to decided on the following issues later on Monday:

• Will there be recount
• Will there be a runoff, and that will depend on Brownstein
• Will the runoff be on July 6th or will it be delayed till after summer
• And how will the Vaad run until the runoff

The decision will be made with the entire Beis Din by conference call and we will post the rulings tomorrow.

After the meeting Shea Hecht released the following statement “Once again I want to state that I am willing to work with anyone and everyone for the betterment of our Shechuna.

The rumors that I was told that Fishel Browstein is planning to step down I believe are only rumors, he is not going to step down and people are just using it for manipulation to change the results of our elections.

And regards to the situation with the runoff, the bylaws are clear that there should be a runoff, there is no reason the runoff should not take place immediately, after all the candidates are known to all the people.”

And Zaki Tamir released the following statement “I only heard tremendous things about Rabbi Paltiel, and that I know that he has a following in CH, and in his opinion he represents a lot of people.

Considering all that I am hoping that my representation that I am going to make to him is not going to be to prove that I am on a specific level but I am moving steadily in the right direction.”

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61 Comments

  • antimesira

    Can anybody tell me who this Poltorak guy is?
    Why is he representing us, did we not just have an election where we voted him out?

  • dreck go home

    poldrek go home!!! your job of bringing machlokes to crown heights is done. give it up!! go and find a corner, pitch a tent and charge admission, you clown!!

  • funny and sad

    “Rabbi Abba Paltiel, a Mashpia sided with the Poltorak group, was the first to speak and raised a number of issues, first calling the Zabl”o Beis Din’s jurisdiction into question on the matter of them being allowed to call for elections.”

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha So sad!

  • CHER

    plain and simple SORE LOSERS.

    what is their problem, we just had a free democratic election with a record turnout?

  • Poltorak / Gore 2010

    chads! dimples! the people couldn’t read the ballots!

    I really won!

    grow up!

    Until today i had some respect for Paltiel.

    The Achdus team sent us a letter that they are “champions of democracy” (Bronstein’s letter)

    The people voted overwhelmingly!!

    Void the elections? arent these the guys who were suing Rabbi Osdoba because of the money spent on their election?
    This election the people actually voted!

    Listen to the people now!!!!

  • Can someone explain

    Isn’t it simple just make the stupid runoff already and that’s it what is the whole fuss about, and why are people who lost still involved?

  • speed up the process

    surely the people who couldnt wait for keys last year and found it necessary to break doors and windows understand that the people of crown heights dont have to wait 2 months for thm to leave

  • Alexander

    What about the statement that the Potorak Vaad came only to bring peace to the community and that they intend to abide by the Psak etc. etc.?

    So no more pretending is neccessary uh?

  • So what changed???

    And 2000+ people believed there could be fair & honest elections in Crown Heights?

    Do you see, you STUPID people, just what is going on her? Are you all so petty, pathetic, & power hungry that you put your own egos above your neighborhood? You are all so full of garbage, you invoke the Rebbe when it suits you, you cry Achdus & all you do is cause more divisiveness.

    LEAVE!! Poltorak, Brownstein, Paltiel, Sperlin, you all cause so much machloykes.

    We really are in Golus. This is Golus + hell. Rabbi Rosenberg, let women vote. Then maybe together this community can vote in new blood who can heal the rifts and bring success to this declining place. G-d help us, because we have fools & egotistical losers trying to run the show.

    Rabbi Rosenberg, why aren’t these people in cherem for the way they have destroyed what was so precious to our Rebbe.

    Hendel…get the hell out of here, you twisted troublemaker.

  • bylaw convention

    yes, we are going to have fix the bylaws to prevent this from happening again.
    I don’t think it is fair to fishel to have to have a runoff with the 3rd and 4th place canidates
    shea and hackner should have a runoff to determine the 3rd position.

    and a rocount should be automatic if someone wins or loses by 25 votes
    human error at 2am is very possible

  • Achdus is not a campaign slogan

    Didnt we all overwhelmingly agree to the throw the bums out?? If brownstein doesn’t want to act like a mentsch then let it just be Hackner and Hecht with Zaki.

    This is the type of nasty politics that we all wanted to avoid by choosing NOT to elect the so called “Achdus” group.

    For the betterment of the schuna, leave!

  • MaDDinBklyn

    “How low can you go? how low can you go?” losers are called losers because they lost something, these poeple lost the elections because the ovewhelming majority of people wanted them out, wanted them out the very night they lost, if somehow the mossrim weasel their way in even 1 extra day I GUARENTEE mass protest outside the community council office every day they ‘occupy’ our community.
    Rabbi Rosenberg seems like an extremely intelligent man who’s not intimidated by the like of the “great” minds of Rabbi paltiel who for me reading this causes great sorrow that a man like Rabbi Paltiel would rise to defend the likes of poltorac sperlin and crew.
    I got a real kick out of Rabbi Rosenbergs response to poltorac ‘nobody ever ruled if your not a mosser or not’ “it will takes months to decide”
    mossrim get out!

  • excuse me

    Why did this community re-elect Fishel Brownstein, given the behavior he exhibited as described above?

  • So You-re Non - Political, Eh?

    Paltiel is a three-dollar bill. He has now shown his true colors for all to see. Thank you Rabbi Rosenberg for putting this phony mashpia in his place.

  • I HAVE HAD ENOUGH

    I think its time that these mossrim scum be ejected from our shchuna once and for all. Elections are done and ZAKI WON !!!! if fishel cant work with him then step down and shea and yossi will. WE NEED PEACE HERE AND THESE SCUMBAGS WILL NEVER ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN!!!! EVERY ONE AGREED TO THE DIN TORAH NOW FOLLOW THE BET DIN!!!!

  • lots of achdus

    how can you say the achdus team have no achdus?

    they are united agains the elections

    they are united against the one candidate the community chose

    they are united against our right to vote for whom we chose

    they are united agaist the majority of the community!

    now that’s achdus!

  • Boruch

    The ‘old vaad’ is hereby to be referred to as the DNC (Democratic National Committee). Just as when Scott Brown won in Massachusetts, the DNC did everything they could to obstruct him from being seated in the senate (they wanted to delay the seating forever), likewise with these losers, that they can’t gracefully step back and let the newly elected group serve their community.

    So Mr. Poltorak would probably be closest to Pelosi.

  • No Achdus Clown Show

    I was indeed hoping that, just to save money and bring real achdus, the three runners up would all serve under Zaki Tamir.

    However, after the clown show described above, I think the entire “Schmockdus Team” should be banned from running for ANY community office for the next 10 years.

    And if Poltergeist really was involved in the Shmira mesira, helping to create a frivolous case, it may well be an offense that can get him disbarred.

  • me myself and i

    Why can’t brownstein talk on his own, he was asked a question the night of meet the candidates, he told poltrak to answer, now we see again polterak talking for him.

  • Ayatollahs in Crown Heights

    Recently the world witnessed a similar reaction to free elections in Iran, with ayatollahs not liking the results and coming out in full support of Ahmadinejad ym”sh.

    Now we have Poltorak and his ayatollahs (Hendel & Paltiel) with their pathetically transparent mental gymnastics attempting to nullify OUR vote! We should all be thankful that these people don’t have a way of utilizing physical force to get their way. Make no mistake about it, they would not hesitate for a moment (for the ‘greater good’, naturally!

    I hope that Rabbi Rosenberg (and the majority of this beis din) will see through this and put a final stop to this hijacking attempt once and for all!

  • BCH

    The run-off should have taken place yesterday, June 20 – the last Sunday before everyone leaves for the country. The reason it didn’t was only because Poltorak & Co didn’t let it happen. Why should they now be rewarded for this delaying tactic and be allowed to stay until after the summer? That idea is simply preposterous!

    On the other hand, the only way we can to hold a run-off in the middle of the summer (when no one is around on weekends) is to do it on a weekday and have the polls open from 6:00Am through something like 1:00AM.

    If the run-off can’t happen until after the summer, then an interim Vaad should be put in place IMMEDIATELY and it should consist of all four people (the elected one and the three run-off candidates). Aderaba, let us see them function and we will have an easier time deciding who to vote for in the run-off.

    But there is no place on the Vaad for people whom we have resoundingly VOTED OUT!

  • chl

    thanks to CHts politics, alot of us are being very turned off to alot of aspects in CHts. This is just nebach. Lubavs don’t know how to do politics, we weren’t raised to do this….but come on, can’t people just learn how for the communitys sake.
    how sad on us that we learn in chassidus how to be, and then they can’t apply it. oy vehy

  • Out of Towner II

    I say let’s write a comedy movie about this. What would the rating be?? G? PG?? R? or just “Crown Heights Comedy at it’s Best!”?

  • sick of this

    When these garbages are hated so much by so many, why are they still trying to get their old jobs back? WE DON’T WANT YOU!!! What will it take to convince you WE DESPISE YOU?

  • SCP

    I call these guys “SCP” Samarkand Chniyok Party“ the ”’ski party” party of losers. Can’t you get this through your thick skulls that you LOST! YOU LOST! YOU LOST!
    You dont know how to lose Gracefully!
    Why are you such sore-losers?
    My advice to you is: Bow out gracefully – to spare yourselves further ‘Charpes un Bushoys’
    GO Home! go take care of your familys and your parnosos.
    The community is sick and tired of you! every single one of you! SO LEAVE US ALONE!

  • CHELM STORY

    THIS IS A GREAT CHELM STORY. PRINT IT AND PUBLISH IT FOR THE AGES!!

  • Oliver Cromwell

    “You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately. Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of G-d, go!”

  • mendoza

    G-d bless the ones who r paying 4 rabbi rosenbergs pay ck .with out him we r dead in the water . none of us r good ..all think about there owen fat ego . and $$$$$ and power . even paltiel who davens till 4.oo o clock on shabbos

  • yechi

    I am disappointed that Mendy Hendel did not get up and say yechi! Shea Hecht was there.

    Shame on Hendel he had an opportunity and messed up. Now who knows when mmoshiach will come.

  • Interested Party

    Where is “love of your fellow Jew”?? I am ashamed of the discord among my brethren. Can’t people agree to disagree in a civilized way?? Aren’t we smart and wise enough to know that differences of opinion make the world go round?? How sad that this fine and “exemplary” Jewish community that is respected WORLD round, can not conduct political business in a respectable way. The comments that follow these articles are so bitter, biting and nasty. ALL of the leaders in the Vaad have good intentions. ALL of them have families and want the best for Crown Heights. The current Vaad has done SO much good for the community. Why can’t people see that?? Brownstein should not have to “run” again. The other two should “run” against each other in a run up election to be chosen. Come on Lubavs….get your priorities on straight. Notice all the GOOD and stop b*tching about all the other nonsense.

  • noah

    Can someone explain to me what’s going on here? What benefit is there to anyone to stay in office? Are they paid for every day they’re there? This isn’t the US Senate and these people are really not celebrities in any capacity. I think if I were in the ousted Vaad, I would be eager to get out as quickly as possible and get on with my life. What gives?

    By the way, what kind of compensation do members of the Vaad receive? Is it possible these people just have little else to do?

  • mother in Crown Heights

    Can someone please show Rabbi Rosenberg these comments…in fact, ALL the comments from the pre-election hype? He surely must see that we, the community, want the previous incumbents OUT. There is no democracy as it stands. Do we have to bring a court case to get rid of them? Where is the transparency & honesty? Like Nero, they fiddle while Crown Heights burns.

    Actually, I think Rabbi Rosenberg should meet with ordinary people WITHOUT ANY CANDIDATES OR THEIR KNOWN SUPPORTERS present. He needs to hear from us directly how we feel. And as a woman, I want the opportunity to say what all this is doing to our neighborhood B’gashmius AND B’ruchnius. If we can’t vote, at least let us speak. We are trying to raise our children in this environment.

    If Rabbi Rosenberg is agreeable I will meet with him wherever & whenever he wants.

  • MOSRIM

    to 36, do you really want to know why people are bitter? becuase this group of vaad (poldrek, cadaner, sperlin) are mosrim and rabel rousers that have caused so much heartache and grief in our community.

    they went after our businesses with subpeanas, they went after our gemachs with subpeanas, and beacuase of that people were able to make shabbos and yom tov.

    they are bad people and we want them gone. GONE!

  • family member of poltrack

    Why are we even discussing this? It is like Israel and the Arabs. When Israel won a war fair ans square, the Arabs want them to give back what they won.
    Poltrack group lost. You saw that you are not wanted. Leave!!!!!!!!!!!!! Paltiel you just showed who you are really are. What a shame for the people who respected you!!!!!!!!
    Why can’t you guys leave gracefully and not make a fool of yourself?
    Poltack, who are you anyway to “join” Lubavitch and try to ruin it. Go back where you came from you are an embarrassment to your wife’s family. They are geza and you are garbage. So for their sake leave.

  • Moishe from BP

    To # 27 the most reasonable comment

    To all others thinking that because there were fair elections a the people of CAN TZIVAH voted will automaticaly change the other people and turn them into menthcen is naive.

    The main point of the elections and this point must be repeated again and again is that CH voted against machlokos this is not a comedy but a strong and beutiful fact and as a comunity this needs to be the primary goal of all CH’s even tough it will not be accomplished in a minute

    To all of the out of towners with their smart comments please go setup fair elections in your comunities and resolve your petty machlokois before laughing at CH

  • a fed up resident

    The perfect term or words to describe poltordrek & company
    ADULT BABIES YES THAT’S RIGHT NOTHING MORE PUT THEM IN DIAPERS GIVE THEM THERE SOSIES(PACIFIERS OR GIVE THEM A BOTTLE & PUT THEM TO BED THEY GOT CRANKY & NEED TO BE PUT TO SLEEP EARLY!As for Abba Paltiel you lost my respect & the respect of many others with your wild unfortunate statements I suggest that anyone who considered him their Mashpiah find someone else He has become very political anti Bais din & anti Shalom

  • Jewish Producer

    To #29: Can I do the casting for the movie?? I’ll start looking for movie stars to play the roles. Who would play Polterak?? Who would play Brownstein?? Who would play Sperlin?? Should we hold auditions?? Any suggestions?? Think the movie would sell tickets??

  • Chaim Hershkop Shomrim Six

    “Poltorak raised another claim stating that the elections were unfair to him and his running mates and they were at a disadvantage because the Beis Din did not vindicate them, and allowed for a campaign calling him and Chanina Sperlin Mossrim.”

    This I find pretty hypocritical.

    I was accused of over 17 counts. Together with my fellow Shomrim Six we had over 100 counts.

    We spent over two years in court, ending with a 6 long weeks of trial, we were found NOT GUILTY!!!
    WE WERE VINDICATED, YET POLTORAK AND FRIENDS STILL CLAIM WE DID BEAT THE BOCHRIM AND STILL GO AROUND CALLING MYSELF AND MY FRIENDS A GANG.http://whoisshmira.wordpres…

    Why the double stranded?

  • what intentions?

    to number 36, I can’t see intentions.

    I can only see the actual deeds of this group. Poltorak standing on the bimah disrupting the Torah Reading on Rosh HaShana, screaming epiphets at Rav Segal, inciting the crowd.

    Defying the letter of rav Osdoba explaining that there needs to be a Din Torah before elections can be held, and going ahead anyway with a one sided, communist style “election”.

    Breaking into the offices of the community council and Beis Din the night following the “election” like hooligans, although the Rebbe said in 5746 that the the old Vaad should not leave before assisting the new Vaad in the transition of leadership. Attacking Rabbi Segal physically.

    Brownstein hacking into all the accounts of the council to glean information for the mesirahs in against the old Vaad, and the Rabbonim, Osdoba, Segal, Zirkind and Raitport, calling them criminals R“L.

    Ripping out the phone line of the office in 770 that Rav Segal was compelled to use after they ransacked his office in the Bais Din, so that no one can call to ask him shailos.

    Oh, on a personal level, my child did not go to camp last summer, because despite all the ”good things“ the ”achdus” Vaad did, they did not give us a scholarship.

  • transparency

    Can we get a full transcript of the meeting? I think the people of crown heights have a right to know what their elected officials, askanim, mashpi’im, rabbonim and dayan rosenberg actually said in full. Then we can make intelligent decisions about our leadership. Does this sound too radical?

  • To Rabbi Paltiel

    How can you endorse a slate of candidates, semd out and publish a letter telling people to vote, vote yourself and thensay the elections should not have happened? We don’t have to follow your endorsements to have a Kosher election!

  • Yossi

    I did not vote for Poltorak, and I was not sure I did the right thing,but now I am 100% sure that I made the right decision, based on his post election behavior, it shameful and embarrassing.

  • vote early, vote often!

    Run-offs on July 6? Is this true? When CH.info says it it’s true.

    So what’s the scoop?

  • Ahh mendy hendel again...

    You LOST!!!! Crown heights doesn’t want you or your cronies!
    And I also thought Rabbi Paltiel was a respectable man…Give it up guys.

  • SPIELMAN

    WHERE IS SPIELMAN WHEN WE NEED MORE ENTERTAINMENT?
    HE ALWAYS HAS USELESS HATERED TO ADD TO ANY SITUATION, I AM SURE HE WOULD MAKE A CLOWN OF HIMSELF NOW TOO.
    PLEASE GET A QUOTE FROM HIM FOR THE ENJOYMENT OF THE READERS!!! ;)

  • to #59 and all other peope bashers

    You may think you’re being funny and cute, by your comments, but what exactly is the point of your LOSHON HORA and RECHILUS?? Why do you have to drag Speilman into this? How does this help the achdus in our community? It’s bad enough the supposed leaders of our community do not have achdus, why do you have to strengthen the disunity??

    It’s one thing to have a valid complaint, and voice it in a Bakovodike way, but I don’t think this people bashing of either side is getting us any closer to Hisgalus Bais Hamikdosh. Do YOU?

  • mix-multiudes

    l agree with #26 maybe there are the mix-multuide who didn’t die when bnai yisreal we’re killed and cause problems to the jews-how do we get rid of them-may the ground open up and swallow them as we see that the abitchter is doing just that today, a family was swallow in canada,

  • Laaniyas Dayti

    If one of the 3 in the runoff refuses to go with another, then he has automatically disqualified himself from representing the shchunah. R.Shimon ben Shatach sat on a Sanhedrin of Tzedukim for years while patiently (with emess) demoting them one by one. So if you are emess (in your own mind) from who are you afraid? From the one you consider to be sheker? Sorry. Disqualified. Emess has no such fears.

    Of Rabbi Paltiel: it was long ago suspected he was a politician hiding under his tallis (even Moshe Rabbenu said if dayanim come wrapped in their tallis how will I know their true nature.)

    To those who know what true dveikus in davennen is (Yup, they are few, but accessible) his comic puppet like motions all afternoon show a mind in turmoil not in harmony with kedusha.

    So now neither Paltiel senior or junior will be running for the position in the beis din? Or is he in a higher place already?

    Wait for that election – it should be (unfortunately) entertaining.

  • Change Your Location

    New Vaad, new location. Just lock the others out and tell them u don’t play with them anymore cuz they’re not nice. Ignore them and they will go away, just IGNORE them and move on with all the support from the normal people here.

  • Here We Go!

    I see a rift between Brawstein and Hecht with Tamier trying to pull them together. Menwhile Kurensky is going to rip down the signs and Tsfatim will get hurt or arrested. The whole wourld will talk about Chabad’s Ahavas Yisroel. Happy Tishray everyone. Can’t we all just get along.

  • Think About It

    Horav Rosenberg for Rov of Crown Heights. He is respected and listened to by all. Something the present Rabbonim are lacking and what is sorely needed. He should be given a 5 year term to let things cool down and then slowly bring in new Rabbonim and re-establish the Bais Din.

    And for that matter we should bring in a Vaad Hakohol of respected individuals from outside Crown Heights until things cool down and we can once again find people from amongst us who are respected and worthy of our trust to provide the leadership this community needs.

  • Chaim Dov Ber Schwartz

    The election of a third respected, experienced and independent Rov is crucial.
    If there isn’t a respected Beis Din our community will unravel even more than it has.

  • OPINIONATED

    I DON’T UNDERSTAND. WHY ARE POLTORAK AND CO. A SIDE IN THIS DISCUSSION WHEN THEY ARE FOR SURE OUT OF THE PICTURE. THE ONLY ONE IS BROWNSTEIN AND IF HE CAN’T SPEAK FOR HIMSELF, HOW IS HE EXPECTED TO RUN THIS COMMUNITY? IF HE WINS WILL HE HAVE POLTORAK ON HAND EVERY TIME HE HAS TO SPEAK UP? AND WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO RABBI PALTIEL, IT IS VERY OBVIOUS THAT HE IS TRYING TO USE HIS POSITION AS MASHPIA FOR OTHER PURPOSES… LAST BUT NOT LEAST WHAT IS THE POINT TO POSTPONE THE RUN OFF IF THEY ARE OUT ANYWAYS,.. THE ONLY REASON I CAN THINK OF IS THAT THEY WILL HAVE SOME TIME TO STIR UP SOME TROUBLE …
    AND WHERE IS CHANINA?

  • how long does it take

    when will the people have a chance to finish the voting process and move forward? clearly the people want change! the previous guys went in the next morning! zaki has a mandate to go in and these guys have a mandate to leave!