After challenging the candidacy of a number of potential candidates, Rabbi Avrohom B. Rosenberg released his ruling late last night.
Update: List of Candidates for Vaad Hakohol Released
After challenging the candidacy of a number of potential candidates, Rabbi Avrohom B. Rosenberg released his ruling late last night.
The list of approved candidates are Fishel Brownstein, Chanina Sperlin, Zev Cadaner and Elie Poltorak, who are the current ‘new’ vaad, and additionaly Avrohom Benarroch, Michoel Chazan, Yosef Keller, Meir Schreiber, Meir Spinner, and Zaki Tamir.
Correction: Yossi Hackner and Aron Vogel have been confirmed as candidates.
Rabbis Shea Hecht and Zalman Wilhelm have been disqualified due to them being involved with their moisdos.
The list for the Gaboim have not been released yet, and the elections for both are set to take place on Sunday, June 13, 2010.
Full text of the decision by Rabbi Rosenberg:
After meeting with the board and discussing the issues regarding the candidates, my decision is as follows:
The following candidates are approved.
1. Michoel Chazan, [his candidacy was not opposed].
2. Meir Spinner, [his candidacy was not opposed].
3. Avrohom Ben Harush, [his candidacy was not opposed].
4. Meir Schreiber, [his candidacy was not opposed].
5. Zaki Tamir [his candidacy was not opposed].
6. Yosef Keller, [his candidacy was not opposed].
7. Yosef Hackner, [his candidacy was opposed, because of his age as per the bylaws of Vaad Hakohol that requires the age of 30, although the bylaws of the council requires only the age of 20].
In my opinion because the election of Vaad Hakohol and the Council were merged (in the 1980’s) as per orders of Rabbi Marlow there cannot be separate bylaws for the two organizations, and we have to decide which one controls. In my opinion the bylaws of the council controls for the following reasons: 1. When the bylaws for the council were approved in 1994, they automatically apply also for Vaad Hakohol (as mentioned above), and therefore they automatically supersede the earlier 1989 bylaws of the Vaad Hakohol. 2. Furthermore even if this is an unresolved issue as to which bylaws govern, certain Halachic principals guide us to go לקולא and accept their candidacy when there are no clear bylaws to disqualify them. 3. At times a Bais Din makes a compromise in such instances, the most logical compromise would be to set an age between the two ages in the conflicting bylaws. The highest age a Bais Din would of set as a compromise would be 27, and he is above this age.
The fact that in one instance a candidate was disqualified because of the age factor doesn’t change the above, even if that was the real reason for disqualification, and I’m not sure if that wasn’t an excuse for other reasons.
The fact that in regard to the number of signatures required for the petition the custom was to go לחומרא doesn’t change the foregoing. This request for 100 signatures even if wrong is harmless, as a person that can’t garner 100 signatures to his petition usually has no chance of being elected.
8. Aron Vogel, [his candidacy was opposed, because of his age as per the bylaws of Vaad Hakohol that requires the age of 30, although the bylaws of the council requires only the age of 20].
In my opinion because the election of Vaad Hakohol and the Council were merged (in the 1980’s) as per orders of Rabbi Marlow there cannot be separate bylaws for the two organizations, and we have to decide which one controls. In my opinion the bylaws of the council controls for the following reasons: 1. When the bylaws for the council were approved in 1994, they automatically apply also for Vaad Hakohol (as mentioned above), and therefore they automatically supersede the earlier 1989 bylaws of the Vaad Hakohol. 2. Furthermore even if this is an unresolved issue as to what bylaws govern, certain Halachic principals guide us to go לקולא and accept them when there are no clear bylaws to disqualify them. 3. At times a Bais Din makes a compromise in such instances, the most logical compromise would be to set an age between the two ages in the conflicting bylaws. The highest age a Bais Din would of set as a compromise would be 27, and he is above this age.
The fact that in one instance a candidate was disqualified because of the age factor doesn’t change the above, even if that was the real reason for disqualification, and I’m not sure if that wasn’t an excuse for other reasons.
The fact that in regard to the number of signatures required for the petition the custom was to go לחומרא doesn’t change the foregoing. This request for 100 signatures even if wrong is harmless, as a person that can’t garner 100 signatures to his petition usually has no chance of being elected.
9. Fishel Braunstein, [his candidacy was opposed because of allegations of not listening to the Psak etc.].
Those alleagation as of now were not proven, and therefore can’t serve as ground for disqualification.
10. Elie Poltorak, [his candidacy was opposed because of allegations of not listening to the Psak etc.].
Those alleagation as of now were not proven, and therefore can’t serve as ground for disqualification.
11. Chanina Sperlin, [his candidacy was opposed because of allegations of not listening to the Psak etc.].
Those alleagation as of now were not proven, and therefore can’t serve as ground for disqualification.
12. Zeev Kadaner, [his candidacy was opposed because of allegations of not listening to the Psak etc. and he was also opposed because of his involvement in “Or Menachem].
Those alleagation as of now were not proven, and therefore can’t serve as ground for disqualification.
The second reason for disqualification has been raised (regarding the same candidate) in previous elections and were rightfully overruled. The bylaws deal with a person running a Mossad, as an administrator, executive director. and in my opinion it also includes the person who (alone or together with others) are the people who are effectively responsible for the Mossad. It does not include a person who is running his own business and merely serves on a voluntary basis as a member of the board of directors of a Mossad. From what I gather this candidate is not more than a member of the board of directors. This Mossad has an administrator, and it also has a person above the administrator who is effectively responsible for the Mossad.
The following candidates are disqualified:
1. Shea Hecht. He as part of his family is effectively responsible for numerous organizations in Crown Heights, that they collectively own and/or run. He also has the official designation as executive director in at least one of the organizations.
2. Zalman Wilhelm. He is the paid administrator for Bnos Menachem.
me mysefl and i
Is this a joke.
Shame on rosenberg. I agree he did a good job on solving a long argument with rabonim. But what are we left with. Look at the names we have. The old vaad were not good bc of the conflict AND bc who they are.
The big mouths. The ones that “could have” stood up to the old vaad are gone and kicked out for that reason. Using age and positions as excuses.
Hecht runs a succefull comunity organization so he can’t do more???
What?!?!?!?!
Where is kasriel shemtov and notta barber??
BP Yid
Mazal tov Mazal Tov! Hatzlacha u’vracha!
a concerned resident
It should be out with the old & in with the new The existing 4 for the overall community benefit should not be let back in for various reasons including their will full effort at expanding the Machlokes etc.
moshe der g
why not post rosenbergs answer
Not concerned resident of CH
To concerned resident
Listen to rabonim and you won’t be concerned more than that you won’t be part of instigating machlokes.
Hope every eligible voter goes out and votes for their best candidates.
Opinions keep to yourselfs.
same ol
same old garbage
Tiff
Vote for the ANC not for PW he is a member of the AWB
antimesira
“For the informers there is no hope”
We are back to scare one.
All this time and money wasted on the Din Torah, for what, more of the same?
C.H.
Does this mean we will see an increase in Mesira now that Chanina Mesira will be running again?
fair elections
Somebody has been misreading the ruling. Rabbi rosenberg overruled the age issue, and is allowing both Hackner and Vogel to run. He only disqualified those that have a clear conflict of interest, because of the competing Mosdos that they are in charge of. Therefore, I think Rabbi Rosenberg was very fair and reasonable
peace in ch
To the concerned resident, I disagree with you. i believe the incumbents should be reelected, because they actually are the ones responsible for having this Din Tora and bringing peace to the community.
Use your Sechel
1. It is clear from the Psak that there are 12 candidates, the current 4 vaad members, Benarroch, Chazan, Keller, Schreiber, Spinner, Tamir, Vogel, and Hackner.
2. This leaves everyone with options about who to vote in. There are enough candidates to vote in a new slate, keep the same slate, or any other possible mixture of approved candidates.
chaim concerned resident
why is poltrack and kadaner and fishel bronstein allowed to run
thay are a bunch of animols
i hope thay loose we need new blood running our community
lets all not forget thay ratted on our mosdos and moshe rubashkin
the truth will come out
shame on the rabbonim
someone like poltrak who uses hands is allowed to run? but hecht and hackner and anyone else involved in a mosad and doing good fo rthis community cant?
Coliros On Line
SO the old coliros ren to the site name
Coliros On Line and gave them misinformation
(very easy to do to a non english speaking moran)
and now everyone knows that that Coliros are working
for the old baalei machloikes.
Raboisai Remember that this 4 Clouns are BAD
C M
I don’t know if the old vaad was good or not. Really, I have no idea.
But for the sake of the community they should not run so that we can have a FRESH start…
get rid of the antis-
good- i saw what hecht did to hendel by the lag beomer parade
A Common Sense Prediction
One blogger wrote a few weeks ago…and couldn’t be more right…
Is peace coming to Crown Heights, will the Machlokes stop once and for all?
No chance in Hell, now let me explain why.
Although the Psak was very well written and covered a lot, it did not address the issue of Mesira and the Mosrim that carried them out. After everything, all the time and money spent, the Mosrim are still amongst us.
The fact of the matter is, that Chanina Sperlin and Elie Poltorak are Mosrim. The fact is, that one Rov stood by and was silence while six innocent members of his “community” were being prosecuted in a vicious blood libel by “other Jews” (who may I add are from “his faction”). Yes, he may have NOT given them permission, but standing idle as Jewish blood was being spilled, he might as-well have given them permission.
How, please explain, can there be “peace” with Mosrim, who are involved in Mesira with no limitations, no matter the consequence. How, please explain, can there be peace with people who justified (in print and on-line), a Mesira that could have G-d forbid put six of our own people (Fathers, Husbands, Sons, Volunteers and hard working community people) in Jail for 15 years had their Mesira succeeded. How can there be “peace” with animals who tried to shut down Chesed (Kindness) organizations, that has (and thank G-d will) help countless people in our community?
When I read and finished THIS OP-ED [Yungelait: Don’t be Intimidated. It’s your Calling!], I still had the question, of why the hell would any self respecting successful person, who can actually run an operation (whether a Charity or business), want to make himself a target of Mesira? Just look at what has and is happening to the our volunteers in Shomrim, they are targeted by the Mosrim, for the mare fact that they exist and do good things. Look what the Mosrim tried to do to our Gemachyim and to the people that run it. There is a huge history of Mesira on people who just wanted to help. As long as the Mosrim walk freely, we wont be allowed to be free. Free from Mesira and free to grow as a community. The Mosrim are fouled by baseless hate and anger and would rather see everything burn, then G-d forbid let something good actually happen.
By the way, you really want a hint of whats coming. Just take a look at the comments/reaction (on Col, a Mosrim supporter), from the Mosrim (or shall we say “the winning side”) immediately following the Psak. Can’t you feel the love?
So what happens now?
One thing is for certain, Rabbi Rosenberg Shlita has a job for life.
If and only if (a big IF), some good people do take the stand, don’t get intimidated and run to make our community a better place, the Machlokes will just take on a different face. Because, as I wrote above, as long as the Mosrim (Chanina Sperlin, Yankle Spritzer, Mendel Hendel and Co.,) are around, nothing constructive is going to happen.
As someone wrote in an e-mail conversation about the Moser Paul Huebner…
You live in the same community as Huebner. I don’t. You should pressure the Rabbaim to place Huebner in Cherem for what he has done. This would include a prohibition from him getting an aliyah, from his wife using the mikva, and from his children attending school. There are very few things worse than Mesira. If the Rabbaim refuse to do so, you perhaps should reconsider the community in which you live.
This concludes my thoughts and opinion on the Psak and the future (if there might still be one) of Crown Heights. For the sake of our children, I hope I’m totally wrong. Follow up thoughts will come, in the comments.
Oh wait, How could I have forgotten. Here it is straight out, why the Machlokes can’t and will never end.
CH.Info reported THIS -15 Year Old Fight put to Rest with New Letter, which is great news. Ye, you would think. In a panic that perhaps the Machlokes will G-d Forbid die, Chabad.info (Mishichist web site), runs to make a disclaimer with THIS -P’sak from one rov has no Validity. Yechi HaMachlokes!!!
To A Common Sense Prediction wrote
You don’t even realize that you are the problem. How sad…
Stop koching in machlokes. They can only sell this stuff to people who lap it up.
Long Live Universal Suffrage
With elections coming up, perhaps it is time to examine a serious neglect in the procedure. Crown Heights may just be the only place left in the Western Hemisphere where women are not allowed to vote. UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE FOR MEN AND WOMEN!
menachem shuchat
Shame on all those who don’t respect the rulings of our Torah. Since when do we have the right to openly defy the rulings of Rabbonim & openly write chutzpa against the Rabbonim who represent the Torah. In the previous generations, all of you writers against the Rabbonim would have been put into Cherem until you apologised in public for your despicable behavior.
You supposed chassidim, do you not remember the fact that the Rebbe empowered the Rabbonim & demanded from us to do likewise.
Just because you don’t like what the Rabbonim said does not make them wrong! In fact it makes YOU wrong! Do teshuva, rethink your old ways & change YOURSELF to follow the piskei dinim of th Rabbonim who are THE experts in halocho, not you!
If you were chas v’sholom sick with a terrible sickness, would you call your friends in shomrim or would you go to a specialist in the field of medicine?! Well us as Jews have to follow the Torah. The experts & specialists in the halochos of the Tora are the Rabbonim! NO ONE ELSE!
TO A Common Sense Prediction wrote:
Boy, You have a lot of time on your hands. Stop Fantasizing
There was a psak and that is final. Hope everyone listens to the psak and votes for the best candidates. Stop being so pessimistic. The majority rules in a democracy and that is the purpose of the elections.
To menachem shuchat
let me ask you a question .
the rabbi is as good as he respects himself and other rabbis.
now the psak din is clear that a rabbi name shlomo segal must be respected as moreh horoah.
yet there is a young men name Elie C. Poltrack disrespected rabbi segal and put his name in court papers as just Shlomo Yehuda Segal without the RABBI title. in my eyes if this poltrack can not represent crown heights .
i dont need any rabbi here.
if Poltrack is approve to run for any post in a jewish community that’s my approval that rabbis should not be respected.
women should vote
Women should be allowed to vote!!!!
Somebody please explain to me why we women can’t vote in community affairs which affect us and the children we raise directly?
A Common Sense Prediction
The Mosrim are worried about respect for Torah and Rabbies all of a sudden. Wow, I wounder why?
And to the guy that wrote this about what I wrote…
“You don’t even realize that you are the problem. How sad…
Stop koching in machlokes. They can only sell this stuff to people who lap it up.”
Explain. What you wrote above in nothing more then a statement, no explanation. So please by all means explain what you mean. How am I the problem?
Facts about me:
I am not an elected official and those being, I don’t control anybody s life but myself.
I have not been involved in any Mesira, as a matter of fact I was a victim of your Mesira.
All I did was write a comment, why so defensive?
antimesira
“You don’t even realize that you are the problem. How sad…
Stop koching in machlokes. They can only sell this stuff to people who lap it up.”
How is that, by exposing the truth?
Those that expose the problems are not the cause of it.
Mesira makes no sense, for a Jew to do Mesira is madness. No wounder your against common sense, you hate common sense and you hate anybody who thinks different from you and you hate the truth and those who speak it.
The Problem is the Mosrim and those who back them, NOT those who talk about them.
Eli Polerak a Moser
Shomrim case transcripts:
Gorfinkel -Cross- Williams- 11-17-09
page: 1057
Q. When you spoke to the officer was Mr.
Braunstein or Mr. Rotem with you when you spoke to the
officer?
A. I don’t recall.
Q. I’m assuming someone was translating for
you; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And who would that be?
A. The second time Eli Polerak.
Q. You said the second time? Was there a
first, Mr. Gorfinkel?
A. I mentioned earlier during my testimony.
Q. Do me a favor, Mr. Gorfinkel. I’m going
to ask a question and –
THE COURT: Put your hands down.
Page 1058
Q. You said a second time. Was there a
first time that somebody translated for you before
that time in the hospital?
A. NO
Q. This is the first time somebody
translated for you; is that correct?
A. Correct.
THE COURT: What is the name of the
person?
THE WITNESS: Eli Polerak.
THE COURT: How do you spell it?
THE INTERPRETER: E-I-i P-o-I-e-r-a-k.
Cross-Rotem-Mitchell 11/19/09
page 1291
line 16
Q. Okay. But later on that night, when you were at
Kings County Hospital, you did speak to the police; didn’t
you?
A. Personally, no.
Q. Well, did you speak with them some other way,
other than personally?
A. A policeman arrived who spoke with us through a
person named Eli Potack.
Q. Eli Potack was interpreting for you?
A. He was interpreting or translating, interpreting.
Q. But like I’m talking to you right now, you had a
translator; right?
A. With a few more people with me.
Q. Okay. And did the officer ask you questions
through the translator?
A. Yes.
Q. He asked you what happened?
Page 1292
A. Basically, what happened.
Q. Okay. And he asked you who hurt you; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you didn’t name anybody other than Geddy
Hershkop; did you?
A. I don’t recall what I said exactly. I don’t
remember if I said everybody’s name or I didn’t say.
Q. Did you give a description of anybody else?
A. It’s possible.
Q. But you don’t recall?
A. This detail, no.
Q. Isn’t it true that you did not give a description
of anybody else?
A. Again? Come again?
Q. Isn’t it true that you did not give a description
of anyone else other than Geddy Hershkop?
A. I don’t know because there were a few people there
that together spoke with the policeman and maybe the
interpreter simply generally gave the general interpretation
of what we were all saying.
THE COURT: No, it’s not what you were all
saying or we were all saying. Did you, personally, tell
the interpreter or speak through the interpreter and, in
doing so, give a description of the other people?
THE WITNESS: I can’t remember that detail.
[When it says THE COURT, it means the judge mixed in and asked the question].
Gershon Wachtel
I refuse to stand by and watch a good friend, Fishel Brownstein, be run through the mud by calling him an “animal”. Fishel is an amazing fine person who I have respected for decades.
Not really knowing the politics in CH, I can’t say he was right or wrong in any of the decisions he has made. What I can say is that he made those decisions through selflessness and thinking he was doing the right thing.
It is quite wrong to be using such words in describing another person. (Perhaps ask a Rov is saying that violates any dictates of our Torah). If you disagree with something someone has done, please use a dignified language and critisize his actions, not his person.
Women-s intellect
the problem with the community council is that there are no women on board. With all the controversy, having educated, knowledgeable women available to communicate between the neighborhood people and the government would do everyone a world of good. I personally have worked many years and have experience working with government agencies and have had the opportunity to get a number of lucrative deals for the companies I have worked for. Not to mention, that women have a bit more intellect when it comes to the needs of the neighborhood, including the programs needed for families, women, men and children.
Needless to say, regardless if a woman is allowed to be on the board, voting should go according to households in the neighborhood, whereas, either the man or woman of the household can put in their vote and in the homes where there is no male, a woman can put her vote in for that household.
antimesira
To menachem shuchat:
How did Shomrim get in to all this, are they your scape-goat for all your problems?
i you trying to create an Enemy that does not exist, just so you can blame the worlds problem on him/them?
Explain please.
elki
Wow, and Obama thought he had a hard time getting his health bill passed. The Senate has nothing over Crown Heights politics. May the best man win.
Pinchos Woolstone
lets hope the many poor people in our community will get the help they so desparately need from the CHJCC.
Further the CHJCC needs to expand its programs which help train both men and women for respectable livlihoods.
All other personality driven issues are of little importance.
TO A Common Sense Prediction
If you think anyone is a mosser give your info to Rabbi Rosenberg and he will decide whether any of the candidates are Mosrim and whether they are qualified to run.
Until then do yourself a favor and look in the mirror and ask yourself whether you are bigger then the Rabonim ?? and in the Razal it says Kol Haposel Bemumoi Poisal. So maybe you did a little mesira !!!! and also remember Syog Lachochma Shtika. This response is not directed to you but to the few who have this thought process.
A Common Sense Prediction
They have everything, why are they still angry?
Yeah, there’s anger everywhere. I’m surprised at it because the people that are angry are the people who are “winning”. Their people are” winning elections”, they’re winning on the “policy battles” and they’re still mad. They’re still angry. They’re perpetually angry! They’re perpetually enraged. And people have asked me why.
I don’t know. I can’t relate to being mad all the time. I don’t want to be mad all the time. I don’t want to wake up mad. I don’t want to go to bed mad. I don’t want to spend all day mad. There are a lot of people that do it, though, and I, frankly, I don’t understand it. It’s not something that I want to try to parse and analyze. All I know is that they’re not the people are going to get anything done. The constant complaining and whining and anger has got a root cause somewhere, and it all equals is unhappiness and dissatisfaction. And they end up striking out at people like Krinsky (Aguch-Merkoz), Shomrim, Hershkop, Shemtov, this Rov and that Rov etc… and blaming everybody else for the fact that they don’t feel very happy, when in fact they need to look inward.
Steinbergbein
Oy… I can’t imagine ANYONE voting for Chanina after what he has put this community through…
nor Eli Poltrak after his brazen actions, instigating macklokes in the community
Inda Know
OK. So some of you guys above don’t like Poltorak and company. So don’t vote for them. But keep your reshus Motzei Shem Ra lies to yourselves. This current vaad IS THE ONLY ONE since inception of the Vaad HaKahal to allow an election to replace or reelect them without working hard to delay or cancel the election, in order to wrongfully perpetuate themselves in power.
This is all the more amazing in that all the previous Vaads were “working on overtime”, that is, their terms having been long expired while they used all sorts of machinations, lies and tactics to thwart the next scheduled election. This Vaad however, has served only one year of their three year term and yet are willing to stand in a new election for the sake of Shalom.
I for one am planning to vote for Brownstein, Poltorak, Sperlin, and Kadaner, if for no other reason than to assure we HAVE another election, without having to fight for one, three years from now. (There are plenty of other good reasons to vote for them too)
lies
inda, keep on spewing your rants, keeps saying that anyone who says anything bad about your beloved quintet of mossrim. so far you have failed to make any case to say that they are not mossrim and reshoim. if all you can come up with are pointless linesabout it all being lies with nothing to back it up then maybe your not really indaknow.
Inda Know
To lies:
Your name appears appropriate. In America, “Plaintiff” or “Petitioner” means the initiator of a law suit. The original petitioner in Kings Supreme Court (to prevent the overdue election one year ago, in which the current Vaad was elected), was those who oppose the current Vaad. The current Vaad’s defensive actions in response is not mosira by any sane definition of the term. Those who believe you (and perhaps you yourself) “love Big Brother.” I hope the “Ministry of Truth” pays you well.
Tzvi Lang
There is no current vaad The din torah posseled there so called “election”
Inda Know
Dearest Tzvi:
Who taught you to read? No one, obviously. The Psac said that there remain objections to the Vaad’s election, still unresolved. Rather than decide those issues, the Bais Din chose to order a new election, to remove any remaining doubts. They reached no definitive decision regarding the last election (to either affirm or “posul” it). Perhaps they felt that either decision would cause strife and division in the community, and therefore chose a unifying compromise. Such is within their discretion.
The Psac did partially support the election in that it stated clearly that the elected Vaad shall duly serve until the the compromise election is held. Had the previous election been ruled “posul”, you and the Moshe Rubashkin Vaad would have been reinstated to power. Such is not the case. The election of the current Vaad was effectively ruled “VALID … but since there are still strong objections ….”
For those interested, I invite you to view the language of the Psac Din itself. Specifically, compare the language describing the Lang/Rubashkin “elections” for 3 additional rabbonim to the BD“Z of Crown Heights in paragraph 12 (”it was not conducted properly“) to that describing the election of the current Vaad and Gabbiom in paragraph 17 (”We are undecided as to whether the election was properly conducted, or not.“) Apparently the Bais Din knew full well how to use language which indicated an election was clearly ”posul“ (yours) versus when, although not ”posul” (the current Vaad), is presumed valid but remains tainted by unresolved questions.
Your understanding of the Psac Din absolutely, requires an adjustment.
yakov
sheesh.
you know, I for one ,quite enjoy finding when I open my door a free copy of the Algemainer instead of a thousand letters from this Rav or that , this side or that slandering the other. Saying they are upholding the Rotzon Elyon Its quite refreshing.
That is in large part, due to the the pask from the Beis Din. There was din torah , each side was heard and thus we have an election.
Obviously as in any din torah , your not going to be a hundred percent happy but you would have to be blind , to think that we aren’t in better situation then we were six months or more ago.
Then again , I dont have any vested intrest in either side. So, I have no need to scream or shout , that this is the best thing ever or its abusha un a shunder.
I am just BH glad that we will be having an fair election , and as they say let the people speak.
things aren-t always what they seem
“TO COMMENT #1: YOU HAVE ONLLY REPEATED SHRIEBER’S VERSION OF THE STORY. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE AROUND IN THOSE DAYS WHO SAY THAT’S NOT EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. BUT, WHATEVER REALLY HAPPENED, WE ALL KNOW THAT SHRIEBER HAS A VERY BIG BUSINESS GETTING MORTGAGES AND WITH REAL ESTATE – MOST OF US IN CH USED HIM THE PAST FEW YEARS. SO, WHY ISN’T HE PAYING BACK THE PEOPLE THAT HE HURT & STILL OWES BIG MONEY TO IF HE ”BACKED UP“ THE DEALS WITH HIS OWN MONEY??”