R’ Sholom Ber Lipskar on the Rebbe — Extended Interview with Jerry Levine (5753)

In this profound interview with Jerry Levin from 5753 (1993), filmed for “Windows To The Soul”, Rabbi Lipskar delves into the very essence of the Rebbe—a “general soul” intrinsically linked to every single Yid. He also speaks about the depth of his boundless humility, the Rebbe’s extraordinary perception & Chasidim’s belief that the Rebbe is Moshiach who will lead us to Geulah. Above all, the interview underscores the Rebbe’s tireless devotion, his all-encompassing love for every Jew, and his unparalleled success in igniting Jewish pride and unity across the globe, bringing forth the light of Torah and Mitzvos to all of humanity.

JERRY LEVINE: I’ve been to 770 plenty of times. You’ve obviously been to 770 many, many more times than I have. Whenever I’ve been there, something special seems to happen when the Rebbe walks into the room. Can you explain that process? Why it is, what the atmosphere is like? What happens? And, it’s a very unique situation. Most secular people have never seen that kind of veneration for anybody. So maybe you can help us put it into perspective. What happens when the Rebbe is ready to walk in and when he actually walks in?

RABBI LIPSKAR: From a theoretical, philosophical point of view, the Rebbe is perceived not as a leadership quality person who has a high position in the community, so to speak, a rabbi of rabbis. It’s not that at all. It’s more fundamental. He’s considered to be a general soul that, in some way, connects with every single soul of every single Jew in the entire world, somewhat akin to Jacob. In fact, the term that is utilized to describe a Rebbe in Hebrew, which is Nasi, also refers to Jacob—Nitzuto Shel Yaakov Avinu, the sparks of our patriarch Jacob. In the same way as Jacob contained within himself the entire Jewish people by begetting the 12 tribes, who are the source for the Jewish community, the Rebbe is considered to be a connector and contains within himself, in some fashion, a relationship with every single Jew. And the veneration for him is such that he’s perceived as one who understands his fellow Jew, who feels for him, is connected to him, and not served as a conduit between him and G-d, so to speak, because each person can deal directly with G-d, but in some fashion to serve as an intermediary that allows a person to relate to a higher form of human as he is manifest with G-dliness. Together with that, of course, on a practical level, the Rebbe is energy. He is, instead of perceiving him as a body that contains a soul, in a more true perspective, the Rebbe would be a soul that’s clothed by a body. In other words, his existence is soul, its force, its energy, its G-dliness. When he walks in, what comes in with him is a sense of truth, righteousness, power, G-dliness, and the extremes of forces that interact with that human, such as the highest levels of achievement, the highest ability to connect with holiness, together with the simplistic humility that the Rebbe contains within himself, Those kinds of forces that interact together bring about a tremendous power. And when he walks into that room, power walks in, energy walks in, G-dliness walks in, and it’s sensed. It’s not that you have to sort of make yourself feel honored, like respectful—it’s time now to respect, there’s an important person coming in. As soon as he walks in, there’s this charge in the air, and there’s like an osmosis that takes place. You sort of relate to this holy person that has just come into your midst, and it’s that powerful, enigmatic force that is the Rebbe.

JERRY LEVINE: When, uh, you—there’s two follow-up questions I have on that. Um, first one is, it makes people who are not Hasidic or not Lubavitch, specifically, who are Orthodox, and I think probably some secular Jews as well, when people hear other people talking about how holy he is and how special he is and how he’s a prophet of our generation, and how people describe him as one of the great Jewish leaders, the greatest Jewish leader of our generation, a person who changed the entire Jewish community since the Holocaust—all these different things. Um, I’ve heard people say that it makes them feel uncomfortable, uh, to hear the Rebbe described in those terms. Why do you think that is? And just can you give me some insight into that?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Yes. Uh, first, it’s a little bit difficult for people when they’re faced with a leadership quality that challenges their being, that challenges their behavior modes, because the Rebbe is the kind of leader that articulates a way of life and directs people’s living patterns and deals with practicalizing the Torah, and people relate to him in such a way that his word, so to speak, is law, in a sense. And it’s not so much in terms of a metaphysical, what you might call a magical relationship, of this kind of occultist attitude, but it’s a deep respect for his spiritual knowledge, for being able to have a broad perspective of everything that goes on while he’s responding to your particular issue. We’re much more limited than he is, both in scope and depth—in mental capacity and emotional capacity—in recognizing how events will affect other events as time goes on. This kind of individual is very challenging to most people. Most people are not used to it. Most people don’t want to relate to an individual who, so to speak, can look into my eyes and see who I am, really, from the moment of my essence to my practical application to my manifestation. And as we revere this kind of a person in such a manner—and the reverence is not merely a theoretical reverence—it’s one that actually makes changes in my life. I will do that which the Rebbe asks me or tells me to do. I will follow the directions that he sets forth in terms of how the Torah relates to modern times. And some people feel a little bit challenged. and they feel insecure with the fact that somebody can do that to me, can tell me what to do. And in that fashion, they have they create all kinds of issues as to why they would relate to the Rebbe in a manner that is not within their purview. Another aspect is that probably historically in terms of our own generation, I mean, people are not used to that kind of relationship with the Rebbe. In Europe, that relationship with the Rebbe was very common; I mean, many people had Rebbes. And historically in the past, there was—there were such relationships, such as Moses, Isaiah, Joshua, the various prophets in every generation, the various leaders in every generation. However, in our own modern times, because of the tremendous dissipation of the Jewish people, the exile, the disbursement of our people to various countries, and growing up, so to speak, with a rabbi teacher image rather than a Reba image, that kind of a relationship indicates one that’s more—that’s one that’s more relatively comfortable with us, one that can relate to our everyday experience because that person is an everyday kind of person. The Rebbe is not an everyday kind of person.

JERRY LEVINE: When we talked about the kind of energy that happens when he—you know, that that occurs when he walks into the room and, uh, we again using—going back to some of those adjectives that we used to describe the Rebbe, there—there’s obviously a lot of things going on because that—that’s—that may be how people all around him view what’s happening, but certainly the Rebbe doesn’t probably view himself that way or view what’s happening around him in the same way. Um, do you think you give us a little insight into that? What grounds the Rebbe, or where his sense of humility comes from, and how you think he might perceive some of that?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Well, it’s what you’re saying is very true and it’s precisely the aspect of the Rebbe’s perception of himself that actually is able to project the kind of power and image that those around him receive. The Rebbe is completely nullified and humbled to his almighty G-d. The Rebbe does not feel himself as any level of ego; does not perceive himself as someone that, so to speak, represents his whole being, his whole activity, concept from the moment he wakes up in the morning until the moment he wakes up in the morning again the next day. And I should say that his waking up in the morning is not the regular waking up. He doesn’t sleep as we regulars do eight hours a night; he just spends a few very few hours a night in sleep and usually not in a bed type sleep that we do. But they—his whole existence, his whole being is one that is completely dedicated to the serving service of Hashem. So that his presence is what you might call a chariot, or a nullified being to G-d. And I’ll give you an example for that; I mean, I don’t know if you want me to expand on a good story.

JERRY LEVINE: It’s a difficult concept.

RABBI LIPSKAR: though I’m going to give you an example. Um, there is a student traveling to his teacher, to his Rebbe, for the holidays, and, of course, he uses a horse and buggy—that’s what was used in those times. So there are basically four elements that are traveling to the Rebbe. There’s the student, there is the driver of the buggy, there’s the horse that pulls the buggy, and the buggy itself. Each one of them has a different focus. The student thinks philosophy: What is he going to learn now from the Rebbe at this location? The driver thinks payment; he needs to get paid so he can support his family. The horse thinks oats; he wants to get that oats that’s at the edge of the back that’s keeping him moving. The only thing that doesn’t think anything is the wagon. The wagon is totally subservient; doesn’t have any specific direction. It functions only as a conduit to allow the teacher, the student, and the teacher to get together. Our ancestors—our patriarchs refer to as a chariot to G-d, which means they’re totally subservient to him. They do not have their own perspectives; their perspectives are G-d’s perspectives. The Rebbe is so imbued and integrated with Torah; he is so involved in the G-dliness of existence, Torah with him are almost inseparable. He thinks Torah; he speaks Torah language. When the Rebbe speaks, the language that he utilizes is Torah language. And as a result, when he walks into a room or anywhere that he is, he is completely at that moment directed to what does G-d want him to do at that moment. So that his being, his body, his soul, his existence, his force, his movements, his thought process are all subjugated to G-d. So that G-d basically has taken over that force that moves, that exists. And so, when the Rebbe walks in, it’s the human being as he’s completely subserviated to G-dliness that walks in. What people recognize is that power. So the Rebbe, in terms of self-perception, there is no self-perception of his; he is completely subjugated and totally nullified to the will of G-d, and as a result, moves in such a direction. And so basically what you feel is really the presence of G-d when you’re in the presence of a holy Tzadik.

JERRY LEVINE: Um, one of the opportunities that we had to videotape and could see some of the level of what you’re talking about is, um, was the Rebbe, uh, at the grave site where he, uh, where he, uh, Davens for many, many hours and reads letters, and prays, and so on. Um, why is it that a man who’s 90 years old, uh, stands out in, in very inclement weather? Snow can be piled up outside and take that drive through this graveyard to do that. I mean, can you just describe that—the moment the Rebbe’s car comes in? What—I mean, what’s really going on there?

RABBI LIPSKAR: I’m going to tell you the reality of it, because the reality is represented in the story of his brother-in-law. He and his brother-in-law were both sons-in-law of the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe. And as you might know, in the early parts of the dynastic movement, from the previous Rebbe to this Rebbe assuming leadership of the Chabad movement and becoming the Rebbe, there was some thought about his brother-in-law, the Rashag. He was called Rabbi Shmaryahu Gurary of blessed memory, taking that position. The Rebbe did not want to take on the position of being a Rebbe. But the previous Rebbe actually recruited him, enforced it on him, and he was a Rebbe from the time he was born. I mean, there’s a special soul that a Rebbe has. And one day, when his brother-in-law was approached in a conversation about the Rebbe, he said to him that he had a conversation with his brother-in-law. Rabbi Gurary said to this individual, “I had a conversation with my brother-in-law, and there was an issue at hand, and he said to me that he will go to our father-in-law’s grave of blessed memory, the previous Rebbe, and he will discuss it with him.” Says, “I can’t do that. That’s why he’s the Rebbe.” Souls exist. There’s a reality to souls. Now, this may be something of a subject that needs its own discussion, that needs its own program discussing the concept of souls. But souls are real. Souls are eternal. Souls of Tzadikim, particularly, have an impact in everything that goes on in the world around them. In fact, in Kabbalistic philosophy, it stresses, based on the Kabbalah, that the soul of a Tzadik who is deceased is much more powerful and much more manifested than even the one who is living. The Rebbe actually, I believe — and Chasidim believe, and it’s true — communicates with his saintly father-in-law. When he responds to people about his prayers at the grave of his saintly father-in-law, he says, “I will mention you at the grave of my saintly father-in-law.” In fact, he will always respond; he always responded in such a fashion that his prayers always indicated his mentioning at the grave of his saintly father-in-law. Though, of course, it’s always a mitzvah to pray at the graves of holy people, and people do that all the time. But with the Rebbe, it’s different. There is definitely an intimate fusion that takes place. I mean, here’s someone who spends many hours — I mean, there were times were he went there every single day, anywhere from 5 to 8 to 9 hours standing there, heat and cold, in every circumstance, reading tens of thousands of letters, praying, communicating. Most of the time, people did not come in, so we did not know what happened inside there. But you hear all kinds of stories. But in reality, I believe — and Chasidim believe that there definitely was and is a spiritual communication that takes place between the Rebbe and the soul of his saintly father-in-law, as the Rebbe is able to communicate with souls generally.

JERRY LEVINE: For someone who, um, how about just on an exterior level, I mean, just how unusual it is for someone his age just to be conducting himself in that way? Can you just address yourself to that?

RABBI LIPSKAR: I believe it has to do also with this concept of self-effacement of humility, of total commitment to the Jewish people. From the time he was a child, he dived into a cold river to save someone when he was basically not even 9 years old. And after that, his commitment to the Jewish people, his commitment to making this world a holy place, to preparing the world for the coming of Moshiach, to opening the eyes of the world to Moshiach has been exemplary. It’s been an unprecedented type of leadership, especially in our own recorded past of the last few centuries. The Rebbe himself, because of his selflessness, will dedicate himself completely to the needs of others. And when someone writes to him that he needs a prayer, because of his humility he recognizes that the previous Rebbe is the connecting point to Hashem, to Almighty G-d, that he is the Rebbe as a result of being the son-in-law of the previous Rebbe. So he goes back to his source, and again, the fact that he thinks nothing about his own health, about his own physical stamina and needs — I mean, regardless of the fact that he has extraordinary stamina, and it’s interesting to note that his stroke, unfortunately, that has left him in a sense somewhat physically debilitated — unfortunately, and hopefully he’ll be healthy soon — took place during one of his prayer sessions in the cemetery at the previous Rebbe’s grave. That’s exactly where this happened, which indicates that dynamic commitment that he has to the Jewish people, that not thinking about his own needs. After standing on his feet for many, many hours giving out dollars, he would go to the grave site and again commit himself to his people. So basically, this whole process can be viewed as a leader’s unqualified commitment to the Jewish people and to the people of the world in a way that nothing else matters except to benefit those around him.

JERRY LEVINE: We spent the day and we saw how we went from, uh, from, you know, Mikvah to davening in the car, praying in the car to the grave site, praying for hours at the grave site, then to Mincha and Maariv, and then to study. And, um, um, doesn’t the guy ever take a day off? Doesn’t he ever, uh, have any free time to do anything that normal people think another human being should do?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Do you ever take a day off from breathing, from living, from existing? His life is the objective that G-d placed him in this world. To take a moment off from that would be to deny his relationship with the source. It’s not a question of not taking a day off. I believe people look at him and say, “Boy, he never took a vacation.” I mean, it’s of a different dimension. It’s not to where here’s someone who should have taken a vacation, but because he’s so busy, he hasn’t. It’s because he is who he is completely. And to take a vacation would mean to take a hiatus from his purpose in existence, to minimize the high quality of his being. Besides the fact that the Rebbe is always serving G-d. He’s always studying Torah. He’s always praying. In fact, those who are involved with him on more personal interactions, such as his secretariat, I’ve heard from them that when they come in to see the Rebbe and ask him to respond to certain questions, he will sort of momentarily interrupt his study and respond to some questions. So that he’s always studying, he’s always learning, he’s always praying, he’s always connecting to G-d in the most obvious way. And then he breaks into that pattern to deal also with some of the more practical issues that are addressed to him. But the type of person that he is — of course, it’s so unusual to see someone who never takes a moment off, and you always know exactly where he is because that’s who he is. He is always who he is. He’s always where he’s supposed to be. He is not taking a vacation from this dynamic force that G-d has placed in his holy hands to direct the world to its right destination.

JERRY LEVINE: Um when you — when, uh, people ask you who are sort of, you know, outsiders or whatever, have very limited knowledge and maybe they just found out about the Rebbe. They just, you know, saw something on him or a picture or learned about an experience somebody had. How do you — how do you generally, uh, describe to a lay person who says, you know, what’s the first thing you tell them about, about the — like who — who is this guy? Who — who is this Rebbe?

RABBI LIPSKAR: The Rebbe is the Jewish leader of our times, and because of the unique position that the Jewish people have in the world vis-à-vis the general world community, already endowed by G-d and the prophets, as a light unto the nations to be the teachers to the world. The Jewish leader actually holds the position of directing the Jews to fulfill their mission to be a light unto the nations and to make the world a proper place for G-dliness to dwell. And the Rebbe is that leader of our times. He is the one person who cares about every single Jew, from the simplest child, from the unborn child to the old man who is already in his last moments of breathing. He cares about every single action of every Jew. He cares about every single person in the whole world. He’s a Rebbe who does not only deal with issues that confront the Jewish community but has made a massive campaign to also address the non-Jewish world. He is like the guardian, you might say, the babysitter of the world. I saw it one day specifically. It was, uh, late at night or early in the morning, it was sometimes the 3–4:00 range, and we were coming back from a late meeting in the city, and on the way back to the airport we decided to drive by 770, which is where the Rebbe’s headquarters are. And as we drove by, the streets already were empty. The only things rumbling in the streets were garbage trucks, bakery trucks, and newspaper trucks. Even the general homeless population was already hidden somewhere, wherever they sleep, you know, under the tracks or under the bridges or in the stairwells of buildings, but the streets were literally empty. And as we drove by 770, the lights were on. Everywhere else the lights were off. And it seemed like there was somebody taking care of the world; some holy man, whom G-d has endowed with special powers, that is sitting there and caring, you and I, as we sleep peacefully, communicating with G-d, trying to formulate a plan to make the world a better place. That’s the Rebbe.

JERRY LEVINE: People say that the Rebbe gives them blessings for different things, and sometimes they happen despite all kinds of impossible odds, and in spite of just, you know, it couldn’t be so, or he predicts things, or is able to foresee things and call things that other people wouldn’t. Um, you know, I’ve asked other people this question. I mean, does the Rebbe have what a simple person would call magical powers? I mean, how do you reconcile that ability? And is it sort of like people who have extra sensory perception, or you know, that have some abilities that people can comprehend? How do you, I mean, what is this that goes on?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Well, as you just articulated, the Rebbe does have special powers given to him by G-d. And in the same way as you and I are limited in certain ways, but nonetheless to others we may seem to be special. For example, to someone who doesn’t know how to read, we open up a book, and we know exactly what it says. It looks like we’re quite advanced. You know, some people read a letter at a time, some people read a word at a time, some people read a line, and other people read a sentence, other people read a page at a time because their scope is so great that they can grasp the entire page. The Rebbe happens to read a page at a time. I mean, his scope physically is one of beyond genius level, I mean, in every field. And the Rebbe does do what we perceive as miracles, though in his perception the way that he operates in the universe, because he is in a higher dimension and is able to connect with the more essential elements of the universe, that he can come into contact with those things that we do not come into contact with. For example, you and I, as we sit opposite from each other, we do not see all of the elements that exist in between us. It looks like empty space. One who is wearing the laser glasses that may be able to show him what exists here will see multi-millions of particles that exist between us. So that reality is not that which is; it is that which is perceived generally. The Rebbe’s reality, because of his perception, because of his insight, is a much more essential and fundamental and powerful reality than the ones that you and I interact with—the general people. So that that which the Rebbe can advise people to do is because he witnesses the aura about them. He sees their energy. He can see the cause and effect of their behavior, and he can sort of tune in to a much deeper level of being. And from that perspective, he can do what we refer to as miracles or things that are not natural. And there are literally thousands of miracles attributed to him—practical things that happened to me in my life. So I know that it’s not something that you hear from other people, but that you experience.

JERRY LEVINE: And very quickly, what are some of these kinds of stories that you’ve heard?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Well, stories that begin from medical instances where the Rebbe has indicated that somebody should undergo certain surgery, and that physicians would say that the surgery is not going to help, and they bring about the finest surgeons, and they finally influence them to do the surgery, and thereby, is told the participant or the patient to do certain spiritual things, such as keep kosher, put on Mezuzas on the doors, and so forth. And in one instance, for example, the doctor, who happened not to be Jewish, came out of the surgery room, out of the theater, and approached my father, who was waiting with his friend there, waiting for this man’s wife to come forth, and he says, “I opened this woman, and I didn’t find that I could do anything, but I didn’t perform the surgery. There were two angels standing at my sides and leading my hands.” In numbers of other instances, people who could not have offspring, and the doctors had given up on them. The Rebbe said they will have children; they have children. And business decisions—the Rebbe will tell one person to buy, another person to sell. The one who buys, buys correctly and has success in that process. The one who sells, sells correctly and has success in that process. And it goes from bringing people together in terms of bringing a bride and groom, husband and wife together, telling each one which is the right one for them in their lives, to educational opportunities, to business opportunities, to career issues, to medical issues as I’ve mentioned before, to scientific issues. In one instance, a great Jewish scientist, one of the foremost scientists ever to come forth from the Soviet Union, he shared some of his writings with the Rebbe, and initially he was somewhat, he deliberated; he wasn’t so ready to share all this with the Rebbe because he didn’t want to waste the Rebbe’s time. The Rebbe insisted he send him the writings. And in his conversation, the Rebbe commented about some equation in his writings. When he came out, he immediately called his source laboratory and put it on the mainframe computer, and they found that what the Rebbe had suggested to him, an error in an equation, had saved him many years of work with a mainframe computer. So, there are many of those types of instances that indicate special powers. But among all of them, dealing with scientists, dealing with philosophers, other Rebbes, political leaders, governmental leaders, business leaders—people in every field from music to art to science to medicine on the highest levels interacting with them. It’s when the little child goes by and makes eye contact with the Rebbe that the Rebbe at that moment is there only for that child. That child knows that at that moment the Rebbe is not thinking of any lofty thoughts. He’s not involved with scientists and professors and musicians and any person that can really make a difference, but he’s involved with that particular tiny little child and communicating with the child on their level. And you know because the child never forgets the meeting. And you know because you can look at the Rebbe watching that child and making eye contact with them. You know the Rebbe is there only for that child. And besides that, when you’re talking about literally millions of people who have interacted with the Rebbe, and each person who’s interacted—not everybody has a story to tell, but every single person who’s interacted with the Rebbe, even for a second, for a moment, just walking by the Rebbe, receiving the dollar from him, will say to you the following: He’ll say, “I met him. He met me.” That eye contact, at that moment, the Rebbe has the capacity to sort of disconnect with the person he met a second ago and make a complete, full interactive connection with the person he’s meeting at that moment. I mean, that’s something that is totally unusual, and the reason for that is because he has an inner relationship with that person, because all souls are connected, and because he’s the general soul, so it’s like meeting himself as he meets each Jew. And for a person to be able to recognize—you know, it takes a long time for someone to have a proper relationship with someone. You come in, you sort of have all kinds of niceties: “How are you?”, “What’s happening in your life?”, “What’s your name?”, “What’s my name?”. The Rebbe makes a singular split-second eye contact with the person, and you know that there’s been a meeting of souls, a meeting of hearts, and a total connection.

JERRY LEVINE: I mean, obviously, you know, there were a half a dozen Rebbes before this one, and, um, as you mentioned before, there have been many other Rebbes in the past. Yet it seems that this particular man has done something really unusual in terms of his outreach into the world and utilizing technology. And, uh, he seems to—and I’ve, you know, I think many people will have said this—that really what he’s done is quite unique. Um, can you address that? I mean, even among other figures, I mean, not to diminish any of the other ones, but just in terms of his impact, is he really, uh, yeah, um, again, without, you know, diminishing from any of these other great leaders— we’ll assume that they were all incredible as well— but is this Rebbe truly one of a kind?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Let me, uh, approach it from a number of points of view quickly. First, the Rebbe is number seven. Seven in Jewish life is a very powerful number. According to the kabbalah, the seventh is the beloved. Moses was the seventh. The generations of power are the seventh. G-d dwells in the world of the seventh generation. The Rebbe is the seventh, and all sevens have tremendous power. Besides that, the Rebbe, of course, is living it during the last period of history, and as a result, needs to really create the environment for the messianic revelation. So, from that point of view, there’s no question of, uh, intensity that has is unprecedented in terms of Jewish leadership and momentum in the universe. And as you know, you see the way the world moves, the events of the world, the changes that have taken place. And the Rebbe has prophesized many of these changes, whether it’s the, uh, downfall of communism that the Rebbe prophesized years before it happened, the, uh, Iran, the, uh, the, uh, Gulf war and its result that the Rebbe prophesized months before it happened, and the results of which, the safety of Israel and the fact that it would not be hurt by the Scud issues months before it happened. I mean, besides all of that, and recognizing the fast-moving pace of the world, that there was a unique type of leader necessary for this period of time, the Rebbe can be the closely resembles the power and magnitude of Maimonides, the expert and filled with wisdom individual in the secular world. The Rebbe, of course, has a degree from the Sorbonne and from the University of Berlin, and has a patent from the United States Navy on submarine work and so forth, and at the same time the most brilliant in areas of Jewishness and Torah and holiness and G-dliness. Uh, according to the experts, the Rebbe is an unprecedented leader, one who has not found expression in Jewish leadership, already maybe in millenniums. Besides his prolific writings, he’s written hundreds of books, his deep talks, his representations in spiritual levels and learning. And again, as I mentioned earlier, the Rebbe really does not teach Torah in a way that any other teacher has taught Torah. The Rebbe, as he talks, he expounds and he reveals Torah. It’s almost as if there’s an unending fountain of internal force within him. His language, his thinking process is all Torah. So that the Rebbe really is Torah embodied, Torah personified in the human being. Wisdom embodied and personified, love embodied and personified, caring, compassion—all of those positive forceful traits that a leader needs: humility, hatred of money, uh, character strength. So that from one point of view, the Rebbe is totally humble. But from another point of view, if there is a Torah position that needs to be established, all of a sudden you see this man who rises to the level of a mountain. There’s no budging him. There’s no moving him. The force that he displays during those periods of time are enormous. So that when you talk about leadership quality, I mean, of course we can only perceive it from our limited points of view. But great leaders, great masters who have seen the Rebbe and have seen his writings have said that this is a leader that one cannot fathom could have been in this generation. And we are literally fortunate that this is our leader for our generation and the one that hopefully will open the doors of exile and bring us to the messianic advent.

JERRY LEVINE: Why do you think that there are so many Lubavitchers who believe without question that, uh, that the Rebbe is actually the Messiah? And why is it that that message translates so poorly to the secular world?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Well, primarily one has to understand what Messiah means. See, the word Messiah is such a, a metaphysical concept to most of us. It’s like a transcendent word. It really is not. It’s a very practical word. Messiah in Hebrew means Moshiach, which means anointed, which literally referred to the king of Israel who was anointed and the king that will lead the Jewish people in moments of freedom—complete (Okay, start again with Moshiach?). The concept of Moshiach itself really is perceived by the world as a very transcendent and metaphysical concept. It’s like a magical word, some word that is referred to wings and amorphous concepts, spiritual elements. In reality, the word Moshiach, Messiah, comes from Moshiach, which is anointed. It was referred to the king of Israel who was the Messiah of his time. There was an anointed— there was a, uh, priest who was anointed and there was a king who was anointed. Particularly, the Moshiach we’re waiting for is the king who will once again be anointed from the house of David, and he will lead the Jewish people to their total and complete emancipation. Emancipation from physical material coarseness, where they will then be able to live in a proper value system with proper priorities and, of course, from spiritual overwhelming forces that try to move us in the wrong direction and try to overwhelm our thinking patterns and our feeling patterns. So, Moshiach will come to bring us a world, as my Maimonides says, where there will be no illness and no hatreds, no jealousies, no wars, and there will be goodness and kindness and compassion, as we are all looking for. And that individual who will herald that time will be the one that has the capacity to give us the proper message of how to be able to make those changes and how to articulate that essential force into our practical experiences, because one can say that’s impossible. How are we going to change people’s thinking? How are we going to remove jealousy from the heart? And it’s this anointed king who has the language and the capacity and the message and the ideas and the spiritual force to be able to bring that about. The Rebbe, more than any other leader, has galvanized the world to a spirituality. Today, people are talking about Moshiach. They’re talking about spirituality. The Rebbe’s birthday is celebrated as Education Day, USA—a lot—be a long time before education was given as priority in America. The Rebbe already was talking about the fact that that’s the key to the future. Today, educators, sociologists, anthropologists are recognizing that that’s the fact. So that when people refer to the Rebbe as Moshiach, in all generations there is a Moshiach. Many students refer to their Rebbe as Moshiach because their Rebbe was perfect. We perceive the Rebbe as being the perfect person, as the person who’s totally dedicated to the objective of making the world a place that was intended by G-d for it to be, and for elevating it to that level. And so Chasidim refer to the Rebbe as Moshiach because he is that person. He also comes from the house of David and so forth. And whether or not people will argue the points, there are some elements that some people say, “Well, he doesn’t have all the qualifications,” or “the period is not qualified” for all those reasons. It’s an enigmatic topic. It’s an unknown area. And so we say each day in our prayers, “I believe with a firm faith in the coming of Moshiach.” In our prayer, three times a day, we say, “the shoot of David quickly make it flourish.” We say in the Kaddish, “please bring Moshiach. Bring the redeemer.” We believe in a redeemer. We know it can happen any day, because if we don’t think it can happen any day, then our prayers really are not truthful. So, when we talk about it being able to happen any day, and we look for a representation of that individual, of the potentiality of some human to take that position, it’s the Rebbe.

JERRY LEVINE: And why do you think there’s so much secular resistance to that idea? Why do you think people resent it?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Well from a number of points of view.

Number one, Messiah was always perceived as a more than human element. I mean it’s someone that they felt was going to sort of pop out of the sky. It wasn’t somebody who was actually living among us. They thought about Moshiach really coming riding down the street on a white donkey or something or floating through the air on a cloud. I mean they didn’t rec; they, it wasn’t recognized as something very practical and something very personal. Besides which, Moshiach, of course, will make changes and all of a sudden people think subconsciously, you know, the whole thing is going to change. I mean our priorities will be different. Our materialistic lives will change in a sense where that will not be the great value that we set upon what we try to achieve in our lives and so forth.

And thirdly, it’s because we’ve waited for him for so many thousands of years that when finally someone sort of brings before you a potentiality of it really happening, you sort of resist. You say, “Wait a second, it can’t be happening now because why should it happen now? We’ve been waiting so many years and it hasn’t happened.” It’s almost as if the reality of it takes away the waiting for it and takes away that excitement and that dream.

And the fourth issue is, as we take a look at our world, it’s hard to perceive that this is the kind of a world that really is a messianic world. There’s so many problems. There’s so many issues. There’s so many health issues that are coming about. I mean the breakdown of our systems are so radical that to relate to a Moshiach living in our times and really revealing himself and really taking us to that level is a little bit difficult to comprehend.

And so I think that a lot of it has to do with communication, with public relations, with managing the concept of Moshiach in a way that people can understand what it is and knowing that there is such a reality as Moshiach and that the Rebbe, without question, because of his capacity, his scope, his commitment, his brilliance, his holiness, is a person that historically would certainly qualify for that important role.

JERRY LEVINE: Mhm, I’ve heard you talk before about the fact that the Rebbe is certainly a viable candidate. Why, uh, why is that, uh? I mean couldn’t, couldn’t, uh, why couldn’t Yitzhak Rabin be, uh, the Messiah to someone who believes politically that what he’s doing is so miraculous? Or, um, can you talk about that candidacy concept?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Yes. Because the Messiah, the Messiah personality, be one that’s totally committed to Torah, that does not move one iota from G-d’s commandments from the 613 mitzvahs, that in terms of behavior is as perfect as you can make it in terms of interactive behavior with other people, with human beings, with G-d, and so forth. And from that point of view, political leaders today just do not qualify for that role. I mean it’s someone that would have complete commitment on the spiritual side, complete commitment on the ethical moral side, on the social side, that you could not sort of so to speak point to any aspect of his living pattern or his behavior and say, “Well, that’s in contrast to Torah, that’s contrary to the commandments,” and so forth.

With the Rebbe, there’s nothing about him that you can say that about. I mean, he lives what you might call an exemplary perfect life. If you could talk about someone living a perfect life in terms of a relationship with G-d and his Torah and his mitzvahs and his commandments and his behavior and all of those levels, you would have to point that to Rebbe. And I don’t think there’s anybody else that qualifies for that role.

JERRY LEVINE: Do you think that there’s a part of society that doesn’t want the Messiah to come?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Yes.

JERRY LEVINE: Can you talk about that? Why is that?

RABBI LIPSKAR: Well, Messiah also makes demands. I mean there’s a demand for changes; like I had friends who said to me, you know, if you want Messiah to come, why don’t we wait until after my vacation?

And as you mentioned earlier, the fact that the Rebbe does not take a vacation is not because he is so busy that he can take a vacation; it’s because taking a vacation is contrary to deep living. I mean, for someone to remove himself from materialistic work and to elevate himself to spiritual work, that is what you might call to be a healthy vacation in time of Moshiach, a person would study instead of going out there and working in the field or working in his business environment and so forth. So for a person to completely change that behavior pattern and say suddenly, you know, clothing are not going to be so important and jewelry won’t be so important and the car you drive won’t be so important and the size of the house you have is not going to be so critical and so forth. And suddenly the whole thinking will be in terms of enhancing the intellect, enhancing thinking patterns, enhancing spiritual values, addressing the soul. You know, people are not looking forward to that change. It’s the unknown and also taking away from them something that feels good and that they like. So it’s that kind of an attitude, I believe.

JERRY LEVINE: Um, how would you summarize the, uh, Rebbe’s contribution to world jewelry? I mean, you’ve seen it happening, I mean, um, since you were a child. The Rebbe has really been in, in, in a position of power, and as you grew up, uh, you’ve seen how unique it is, how he sent emissaries all across the world. And how do you describe that impact? I mean, I know we have almost, you know, we have 1,800 institutions now from Lubavitch, but what has he really done?

RABBI LIPSKAR: I think he’s given the Jewish people—he’s given them back their pride everywhere, under every circumstance. And not Jewishness as a historical movement, but Jewishness as a religious concept, Jewishness as a G-dly manifestation. Jews feel good about themselves. He’s made people come back to Jewishness. He’s opened the doors of Jewishness to those who really want to understand what it’s about. And he’s changed the face of the Jewish world. He’s changed it in terms of Jews accepting Jews, Jews being responsible for Jews, Jews bringing Jews back to their Jewishness, Jews responsible for the general world, Jews in terms of their consciousness, Jews in terms of their responsibility charitably, socially, and so forth. He’s changed the world of jewelry so that Jews did not enclose themselves in their little enclaves or ghettos of what you might call radical Jewish behavior, very religious Jews, Orthodox Jews, and the rest of the Jewish community slowly assimilated. But he said, “The Jews are Jews. We’re all brothers.” And he opened up the door for Jews to interact with each other on every single level and that no Jew would be left behind. The message that every single Jew is critical, that we’re all brothers and we are all responsible for each other, and that dignity that it gives us—the Jew who walks down the street or stands on the corner of Fifth Avenue putting on Tefillin with another Jew, it’s not only the mitzvah that takes place. It’s the pride, the capacity to be a Jew and to do something that usually was cloistered. You would hide yourself somewhere in a back room in order to put on Tefillin. Here, in the middle of Fifth Avenue, you’re putting on Tefillin to light the biggest Menorahs in the Champs-Élysées, in front of the Eiffel Tower, in the middle of Central Park in New York, in Moscow, all over the world. The concept of Chanukah Live; I mean, bringing Jewish pride, saying it’s wonderful to be Jewish. It’s wonderful to behave Jewish. It’s wonderful to do mitzvah. It makes sense. It feels good. It responds to a deep level of our being—the Rebbe gave that to the Jewish world.

JERRY LEVINE: And to you, as a rabbi, and to other rabbis, he’s also has, is, is yet another relationship, um, in terms of what he’s given you in terms of basic concepts or the kind of the tenets of his philosophy towards reaching out to the secular world. How would you list those things? I mean, Lubavitch is known to be non-judgmental, most known to be, I mean, there’s certain sort of, uh, critical bullet points that are the things that the Rebbe has, I think, taught. What are they?

RABBI LIPSKAR: The Rebbe, both by teaching and example, has taught us how to be proper teachers. He’s taught us how to be unselfish, to be selfless, to be dedicated, to be honest, to be committed. He’s taught us how to bring out in those with whom we learn their vast potentiality. He’s taught us how to be humble, how to receive, how to give, how to share. He’s basically set forth for us a pattern for life.

And as we watch him continue in his dynamic leadership, it enforces within us the truth of what he has given us. And as we watch ourselves interact with the world around us and with people that are, you might call students, members of our communities, fellow Jews, and those whom we come into contact with on a regular basis, and we share his thoughts, his language, his priorities—it makes sense, and it works.

So that his capacity to utilize the Torah in a psychological fashion, utilize the Torah to enhance a relationship between a husband and wife, between parents and children, between partners and business—the ability to translate Torah into its most practical applications and, at the same time, to recognize that there is so much more and that you need to consistently connect with your teacher. I mean, that’s the relationship that we have with the Rebbe, and, uh, he’s taught us all of that and more.

JERRY LEVINE: Mhm. And as a result, Lubavitch has, um, how would you say it, it generally, uh, like its code in interacting with people, um, and why—how is it different than how other people have viewed, uh, that relationship before? I mean, there’s plenty of Orthodox Jews and even Hasidic Jews who say, “Well, if you don’t do the mitzvahs, you’re not even Jewish. You know, we don’t even want to have anything to do with you.”

RABBI LIPSKAR: I think the fundamentals, and to just continue on one more thing that the Rebbe has consistently taught us and he’s actually imbued us with is love—real love, unqualified, unadulterated love. Love for no other reason than because we’re brothers, sisters—we’re members of the same family. And with that love, that unqualified love, an unconditional one, comes non-judgmental attitudes.

And so that when you see a Jew who is not yet doing the mitzvah, instead of looking at someone who is deficient, who is to be discarded, who is not good yet, we look at someone who still has a wonderful opportunity, someone with whom we can share, someone whom we can help make his life a little bit better, and so forth. And at the same time, we always view ourselves in the same way. So I would say that one of the most powerful things that the Rebbe has shared with us is love for a fellow Jew—unqualified love.

When the Rebbe looks at Jews, you see love. When the Rebbe talks about Jews, you feel love. When the Rebbe tells you what to do in relationship to his Jewish people, you see it. You see the love. You see that wonderful warmth, that bright internal warmth and illumination that comes about in the Rebbe’s face as he interacts with Jews and teaches us to do the same. So I would say love, and that brings within it all the other elements: the non-judgmental attitudes and so forth, and the acceptance and the commitment, and so on.

JERRY LEVINE: Um, there are just, we’re almost done. How about the the uh perceptions that people have of the Rebbe and why they’re why you believe they’re wrong. One of the I’d just like to tell say some perceptions, and you just tell me why it’s wrong.

Um, the Rebbe is an absolute old-fashioned Jewish person who is living from a time that’s passed.

RABBI LIPSKAR: The Rebbe has impacted modernity with such force, utilizing the mechanisms of whatever exists, from audiovisual to satellite technology to science, in terms of being able to interpret morality, Jewishness, Torah, mitzvahs, etc.

I mean, the Rebbe is considered to be, among marketing experts, the most successful marketer of Jewishness that we can imagine in history; one who’s touched everything and everyone in the world. There’s no one in the world that doesn’t know about the Rebbe and his message of Jewishness. So, in terms of perceiving the Rebbe in any fact in any way as old-fashioned or archaic, I mean, is simply foolish, is simply not to know the facts.

Besides, the reality is, as you read the Rebbe’s writings, he is so advanced in articulating Torah through the eyes of nuclear physics and through the eyes of science. I mean, the people who are really at the edge of development and scientific inquiry, and those areas, the people who are really most successful in those fields, and Nobel Prize-winning people in their various areas, they feel that the Rebbe challenges them to move even further. So, you’re talking about someone who’s not only at the cutting edge, but he’s beyond that point.

JERRY LEVINE: Okay, Next perception. Um, I don’t like the Rebbe because I can’t like a man who thinks that he himself is the messiah. So, anybody who could think that, I can’t possibly be comfortable with.

RABBI LIPSKAR: Well, I’ll tell you two points of view of that.

First, if someone goes to a very excellent physician who needs a good diagnosis, and the physician recognizes his capacity and his ability, and that’s why he’s working as the chief of a department in a university in a fine school, in a fine hospital, he says, “I don’t like this person because he perceives himself as a great physician diagnostician.” I mean, the reality is the reality. So, because I don’t like a person because he knows what he is, I mean, really a foolish physician. That’s first.

Secondly, the Rebbe himself said that even the Messiah himself does not know that he is that until G-d tells him to go reveal himself. So, the Rebbe has never said about himself that he is, and that’s a misconception.

JERRY LEVINE: Just a couple of more. Um, people who are the card-holding Lubavitchers, the rabbis, the people with the black hats and the tits and so forth, they are part of a well-organized religious cult.

RABBI LIPSKAR: Uh, I would say the word cult is a bad language, is a bad word here, because “cult” indicates where you lose the capacity to think on your own and that you’re sort of brainwashed, or you have taken, you’ve left your capacity to choose and to think. On the contrary, the Rebbe forces us to make choices, forces us to think. His teachings actually evoke deep ability and capacity to analyze and to synthesize and to come to your own conclusions.

And, of course, the power of the movement is in the fact that it recognizes the truth of Jewishness, the truth of Torah, and how it’s best articulated through the greatness and grandeur of our Rebbe. So, because it’s so successful, because it’s so intricately integrated, that people perceive it in terms of cultist.

But also, because so many wear similar clothes, you know, you sort of think that people who dress alike and they all have beards and they all live in a similar fashion. But, from that point of view, I mean, that’s quite foolish.

Really from a thinking point of view, I believe that Lubavitchers who follow the Rebbe’s thinking patterns are of the most enlightened in thinking, of the most open in their capacity to choose in understanding deep and very sophisticated complicated issues.

JERRY LEVINE: Just a couple more of these. Um, that may be true, but people don’t make Lubavitchers, don’t make a single move without talking to this rabbi, and to the extent that they’re always going to him for advice and asking him to pray on their behalf and everything else. So what they’ve done is they’ve skewed their whole perception. They believe the Rebbe is better than G-d, that he’s G-d incarnate on this planet, and that makes me very uncomfortable.

RABBI LIPSKAR: Well, if you had in your business an adviser, the president of your company, that every time he gave you advice, it worked, every single time, and he gave it to you in a non-judgmental, loving manner, would you continue to go to him for advice all the time? I mean, if he was batting a thousand in your case, why wouldn’t you do it unless you would be foolish, or unless you’d have such an ego that you couldn’t handle someone else telling you what to do or giving you advice when you think, “I should be able to do it on my own.”

I accept the fact that the Rebbe is many times brighter than I on the most simple level. That the Rebbe has always advised me correctly. And if I have the opportunity to have that gift of continuing to get the advice of someone who’s always directed me in the proper fashion, who has always given me the opportunity to maximize my behavior, my activity, I mean, I have to really be a fool not to take advantage of it.

JERRY LEVINE: I want to give you an opportunity also to say maybe there’s some things that we didn’t talk about that you’d like to mention about the Rebbe that I didn’t ask you.

RABBI LIPSKAR: I think the Rebbe, as you perceive him in his physical being, from his most external level—his clothing, the shoes he wears, the clothing he wears, the pencils he writes with, the paper he uses, the room where he lives, the environment that surrounds him, the meals that he eats, his social interactions, and so forth—what you recognize is someone who is completely devoid of materialism. One who utilizes the materialistic world only towards the end that it can accomplish a higher-level mission. There’s nothing important to him other than the expression of that inner force. Because the body needs clothing, he wears clothing. Because you need to live, you need to have a room where you work, and a table, and mechanisms to write and to study, and books, he therefore has an office. It’s not because an office is important or that clothing is important, or that pens are important, or that any external relationship is important.

And here, as you watch this individual, you sort of get challenged and charged to perceive the world in a different way. You start seeing the physical world in the way that it was intended to serve man, instead of man serving it. Instead of working to achieve a materialistic goal, you start looking at how the materialistic aspects of the world are there to allow man to reach a higher-level goal. And as you watch the Rebbe in all of his manifestation, you know, just the simplest levels of his interactions with people and how he behaves on a regular basis, you see that.

And it’s such a refreshing perception of the world. It’s such a challenging view. It’s like futuristic. It’s like the whole world is there to serve man instead of man is there to serve the world, and it’s all personified in this wonderful kind, gentle giant.

JERRY LEVINE: But isn’t the Rebbe very wealthy? I mean, with all these organizations, there must be all this money coming in, and doesn’t he really control a lot of things?

RABBI LIPSKAR: The Rebbe personally owns nothing. All of the Rebbe’s resources are there to pursue the goals of the movement. You see where he lives; you see other great leaders, secular and religious, Jewish and none. You know, when they achieve a certain level of hierarchy, they start living in palaces, at oceanfront homes. They start traveling in their private planes & Jets.

The Rebbe has never lived lavishly. He presently lives in a room that is smaller than most executives’ second offices, not their main offices. I mean, he has stayed in the same room for the last 50 years. He’s been in the same particular room, working side by side with his saintly father-in-law for the first 10, and then taking on the leadership himself as the Rebbe the last 43 years. But as you take a look at that individual and see how he lives, you know for a fact that his wealth is of a different nature; it’s the kind of wealth that you can’t take away from anybody or that you can’t give to anybody. He uses materialism in any way that he can, and in a positive way.

So that, of course, the monies that people have allowed him to utilize to spread Jewishness, he perceives that as being a conduit to take people’s Tzedaka or charitable gifts and then translate them into living patterns, into helping people on many levels, whether it’s education, whether it’s social help, food help, and so forth. But personally, from his home to his office to everything around him, everything is directed towards being a conduit to making the world a better place. He personally has very little physically and needs even less.

JERRY LEVINE: I want you to expound on just that if you could. His shoes, his—he must, you know, his Talis. What are the things that he has? I mean, you talked about other people living in palaces and having cars, boats, and all. What are the things that really the Rebbe has, and that are the things that are important to him in his world?

RABBI LIPSKAR: The representation of a Rebbe—and you can, when the issue of the books came about with the previous Rebbe’s books being taken by his grandson and sold and so forth, and the case came to court—one of the most forceful and dynamic statements that made the judge see clearly what the relationship is here with the Rebbe and his accumulations and his books and his library, particularly, which is the most important aspect for a Rebbe, because that’s where he lives, is in the Torah, in his writings and in the writings of other great scholars—is the fact that the Rebbe’s wife, the previous Rebbe’s daughter, and to her saintly memory and to the Rebbe’s long life, stated when they asked about the books being owned by the family, her statement was, “The Rebbe is owned by his Chasidim. So, of course, his books are owned by the Chasidim.”

So the perception is that the Rebbe has nothing in terms of self because the Rebbe doesn’t have self. He only is a conduit; he’s only a chariot to G-dliness.