Halacha: Shachris in the Afternoon – To Daven or Not to Daven? What About Responding Amen to Such a Minyan?

The following article was written by Shaya Fishman, and is based on teshuvas of HaRav Yosef Yeshaya Braun shlita of Crown Heights, Brooklyn, NY. His teshuvas are publicized below with his permission.

In halacha, just like we have the concept of a “brocha levatala”, a blessing in vain which is forbidden to make, we also have the concept of an “amen levatala” which is when one responds amen to an incorrect brocha. Not only shouldn’t one respond amen, but one is also forbidden to respond amen. The very definition of the word amen means ” Yes it is true and I believe in it” and can obviously only be responded to something which is valid and one agrees with.

Let us give an example.

Our chazal have halachically codified certain times for our current daily tefila based on the times of day when our avos established tefila, and as well as the times when the tamid offerings were brought in the times of the Bais Hamikdash.

Hanetz hachama – sunrise is the moment when the top edge of the sun’s disk comes into view at sea level is the earliest ideal time in which one may recite the amidah for shachris.

Sof zman krias shma -three shaos zmanios into the day. The latest time of the day to fulfill the biblical requirement is to recite the morning Shema. Bedieved (if one missed this time), one should still recite Shema with its blessings until chatzos.

Zman tefila – Four shaos zmanios into the day—ideally the latest time for Shacharit, the morning prayer.

Chatzos – Midday, the halfway point between sunrise and sunset, is the latest time to daven Shacharis.

Mincha Gedola – Half an hour after chatzot, this is the earliest time one may recite Minchah, the afternoon prayer.

As you can see, one is ideally supposed to recite shemone esrei by zman tefila. This article will not discuss the concept of davening past zman tefila, which many are accustomed to do (especially on shabbos in the winter when the zman is early) since many often need more time to prepare for tefila. According to shulchan oruch, as long as one davens before chatzos, he may still halachically recite shemone esrei. (It should be noted that the Rebbe Rashab writes in his sefer Kuntras Eitz Chaim which speaks about the original seder and purpose Tomchei Tmimim, that if possible, the yeshiva should establish shachris to occur before zman tefila) We will focus on what to do if it is past chatzos. Once it is past chatzos, one may not recite shemone esrei for shachris anymore. What is one to do if such a case? He may recite psukei d’zimra, skip boruch sheamar, yishtabach, bircas krias shma, (he may recite the shema all day) and once mincha gedola arrives, he may daven shemone esrei and have in mind that his first shemone esrei is for mincha. He may then finish off the davening which is after the shachris amidah and then he is to recite the mincha shemone esrei as tashlumin (make up). This is all in a case where he accidentally missed shachris. See this article for more details and sources of what to do if one wakes up late. https://asktherav.com/if-after-a-long-night-farbrengen-i-wake-up-just-after-chatzos-what-is-the-halacha-with-shacharis/

However, once chatzos arrives, to daven a full shachris with boruch sheamar, yishtabach, bircas krias shema and a shachis shemone esrei is a complete brocha levatala and absolutely forbidden with no sources in halacha to rely on. If one sees a minyan doing such a thing, he should know it is a minyan full of brocha levatala and one isn’t allowed to participate in it or answer amen to the brochas of chazaras hashatz. There is no difference whether this is a weekday, shabbos, or yomtov. Even if somebody danced during simchas beis hashoeva the whole night until dawn, or stayed up the whole night for shevei shel pesach or shavuos, the halacha is still the same the following day. One must daven the shachris with shemone esrei on time before chatzos (the latest), or daven two minchas.

One may ask: “Isn’t it better that people are at least davening? It makes them feel fulfilled and connected. “A Yid must daven.” There are two answers to this: 1) Nobody is telling them not to daven. Shulchan oruch is just stating how and what to daven. In a case, where it is passed chatzos, one connects himself to Hashem by skipping certain parts of davening and reciting mincha first once mincha gedola has arrived and then making up his missed shachris. 2) Reform and Conservative Judaism make a similar argument- Violate halacha by driving to shul because it makes one feel more spiritual than by staying home. Unfortunately, if we look at the intermarriage results within reform and conservative movements, we see such an attitude actually does more harm and damage than it appears to help. A generation or two later, these people who openly defy halacha because they do what feels good often have little remnants of practical Judaism left at all in their lives. The same must be argued amongst frum Yidden in regards to this lax attitude with late davenings and brocha levatala. At the end of the day, although it may feel better and fulfilling with less guilt to daven an entire shachris in the afternoon, the long-term results are very risky if they aren’t aligned with halacha. One of the cardinal principles of Chabad is that chassidim are to adhere to halacha beyond the letter of the law. G-d fearing Jews go extra lengths to avoid entering into situations which only some opinions hold by, and do their best to keep halacha according to all opinions. Chassidus emphasizes that a mitzvah is a connection to Hashem, and chassidim want to be connected to their Creator in the most perfect way. How much more so does it make sense here in our situation regarding tefila past chatzos that we must avoid a situation which every halachic authority says is incorrect, unacceptable, and in actuality a grave sin of saying Hashem’s name in vain.

Hopefully, all G-d fearing Yidden will be careful and not put themselves in a situation where they ever miss shachris on time. Everyone needs to judge their own strength and power and see if they can handle a night of all-night dancing or farbrenging and still be able to make it to tefila on time. If they can’t, perhaps they should reconsider their participation in such events or insist that they begin and end earlier if it indeed interferes with their ability to follow halacha the next day. But bidieved if it is past chatzos and one didn’t daven yet, one certainly must daven mincha shemone esrei first and then shachris as tashlumin and not say brocha levatalas.

Members of hanhalas of our yeshivas should especially be careful in this matter. We all know how much the Rebeim would stress the inyan that a school mechanach is that he is an educator of Yiddish life, not just a teacher of information. He needs to be a G-d fearing Yid who is a dugma chaya who is meticulous about halacha. To the hanhala member: If you farbreng with your class the whole night into the wee hours, please be a good example the next day and daven with a minyan on time the next day. If an accident does occur and you miscalculated the time or misjudged your ability to wake up, do not be embarrassed to follow halacha and daven mincha first and a shachris tashlumin. But please do not lead your talmidim off the path of halacha and daven shachris in the afternoon, especially in public. If one sees someone in a shul trying to assemble a minyan of people for shachris past chatzos, one should not sit back and let him sin. First, dan lcaf zchus that he doesn’t know the halacha and explain to him in a genuinely caring way that it is not proper to violate halacha and he should privately daven now what is halachically permitted (psukei d’zimara, shema, mincha shemone esrei after mincha gedolah). The Alter Rebbe who compiled the Tanya promises us that every Jew can reach the level of Benonei, and it is something that we must strive to do. He tells us in Chapter 1 that they benonei isn’t even guilty of the sin of failing to protest a sin. It is therefore incumbent on everyone who witnesses an attempted formation of a brocha levatala minyan to speak up and do his best to stop such behavior and occurrences.

Note: this article is solely in regards to the halachic aspect of brocha levatalas and amen levatalas of the late shachris minyonim which occur past chatzos in various shuls, and to stress the importance of davening shachris before chatzos even for an individual who for whatever reasons is davening alone. This article is not at all speaking about individual balei avoda who wake up early, go to the mikveh, learn a lot of chassidus, contemplate, and daven slowly and may miss the zman. People in such a category should consult with a competent Mashpia and Rav who can guide them in their personal avodas hatefila, and will generally be told to at least begin with the minyan. This article is also not dealing with the tefila of tzadikim. There have been certain tzadikim, ovdei Elokim who are completely higher than time, and their tefila was considered tefila doirisa and they knew what they were doing when they delayed themselves. This article is intended for ordinary G-d fearing folk who want to keep halacha, and may not even be aware of the proper halacha due to growing up and observing halachically incorrect atmospheres.

Full response from the morah d’asra Harav Braun shlita

Question 1 – If I enter into a shul where people do not know the correct halacha and make a complete minyan with boruch sheamar, yishtabach, bircas krias shema and a shachris shemone esrei after chatzos
are they saying a brocha levatala?
Answer 1 – Yes.

Question 2 – should one respond to their kedusha and amen to their brochas?
Answer 2 – No.

Question 3 -or is that saying Hashem’s name in vain?
Answer 3 – It’s considered Amen lvatalah, which is similar to bracha l’vatalah

Question 4 – is there a difference if the minyan and shemone esrei was recited before mincha gedolah?
Answer 4 – There is room to be lenient to answer Amen, but it is best to leave the room.

Question 5 – Or if they started before chatzos?
Answer 5 – One may answer Amen if Chazoras Hashatz began after Chatzos.

Question 6 – People often practice halacha by what they remember others doing and by copying an atmosphere.
My question is: is your previous teshuva on what to do if one wakes up late a) advice on what is best to do?

Answer 6 – No

or

Question 7 – b) the actuall halacha and only option?

Answer7 – Actual halacha

If however one MUST skip boruch sheamr, yishtobach etc and do mincha shemone esrei first…
Correct

then it is important for people to know the halacha and what they are doing is wrong.

There shouldn’t be hfekareirus in any shul whether it’s the weekday, shabbos, or yomtov. Maybe the gabbaim, or morei hora should causally stop by the daily late minyonim and put and to this practice and not allow such a thing if it is indeed against halacha.

Answer 8 – Easier said than done

I would bet that most people who daven in these minyanim are unaware of the halacha. If not, the masses will be lead astray and learn “shtika cehodah” that it’s ok to daven a full shachris late since so many people do it daily and the gabbaim and talmildei chochomim observe and say nothing.

Answer 9 – You may publicize

A couple more questions:

Question 10 – What about the yochid bal avoda?

Answer 10 – The Rebbeim allowed for those davening baavoda to start with the minyan continue afterwards.

Someone wakes up 7:30 am on shabbos – brochos mezonos, walking to mikveh, shul . He begins learning Chassidus 8:30 for two hours.
at 10:30 he says korbonos.
at 10:50 he is misbonen
11:00 am he begins hodu

If he can’t finish shemone esrei by 11:39 am in the winter…is he saying a brocha levatala? What if he says s.e. after mincha gedolah?
And of course -we can play around with the numbers…He gets up 7:00 am and still can’t make it on time. And if he gets up earlier..he’ll be so tired his head won’t work to learn and daven.

At 11:00 am – should he hurry and get to shemone esrei by 11:35 am? Or just not pay attention to the clock?

Question 11 – In this case, is there a difference if he gets to boruch sheamar before chatzos?

Answer 11 – If he is davening baarichus, he can suffice with saying Baruch Sheomar before chatzos

Question 12 – How would you answer the question that many respected mashpiem, magidei shiurim in public daven shachris shemone esrei in the afternoon? When people view them, they copy them and they say to themselves “that person would never break halacha”

Answer 12 – I have no answer to that question as well as the other similar questions about other topics

Question 13 – What about cetain tzadkim throughout the generations including the Rebbe who davened not in the right time?

(Again..I’m not asking about quick late minyonim for people who woke up late..That you have already answered that one is not to partake in or to answer amen)

Answer 13 – Seforim mention that the tefillah of a tzadik is on a higher level, it’s tefillah doirisa and not meshubad to times

Question 14 – Finally- You answered not to respond amen nor answer kedusha to a brocha levatala shachris minyan in the afternoon
I understand the amei being out of the question to answer since the brocha is a brocha levatala?
However, seemingly…could there be room to answer the kedusha as it could have the din of a kedusha of mincha which is allowed to be made in the afternoon

Answer 14 – It would not. But one may answer kaddish.