Letter Questions Whether Chabad is Jewish
In response to a full page ad taken out in the ‘Jewish Week’ by an unrecognized organization calling themselves “Kabbolas Hamalchus,” a reader – after first complimenting Chabad’s outreach efforts – goes on to attack the entire movement, comparing them to Jews for Jesus, and questioning whether they are Jewish altogether.
The following letter – titled “Messianic Message” – was published in the Jewish Week’s ‘Letters to the Editor’ section:
Although I am not affiliated with Chabad, I have tremendous respect for the devotion and work of the shluchim (emissaries) around the world. They are probably the best Jewish outreach organization on the planet. That being said, I’m beginning to wonder if they will continue to be “Jewish.”
In the April 15 Jewish Week there were two full-page advertisements placed by Chabad. The first from the Chabads of Westchester explained nicely about Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson and his history. Unfortunately, the second from an organization labeling itself “Kabbolas Hamalchus” wants readers to declare that the rebbe, may he rest in peace, is the King Moshiach. The last time Jews recognized a dead person as the Moshiach was 2,011 years ago and it cost many millions of Jewish lives.
To think that the rebbe, who died over a decade ago, could possibly be the Moshiach is against accepted Orthodox Jewish teachings. This places this group beyond the pale.
Accepting advertisements of this nature is no different than accepting advertising from Jews for Jesus. There is no room for this group even under The Jewish Week’s large umbrella.
Richard Lopchinsky
Gedaliah Goodman
Me, my friends, family, acquaintinses, etc., both Jewish & Non-
Jewish all accept the Rebbe MHM Shlita as Moshiach. The person who
thinks it is not a Jewish concept to accept the Rebbe as Moshiach
is not very well versed in Torah, as is the case with most Jews in
the world. They live in FEAR & live for financial considerations
only. As I always say, Judiasm is not for little boys in short pants. YECHI HAMELECH
I ask the same question
In answer to Mr. Lopchinsky question, NO! Some of our brethren are not practicing Judaism.
A strange belief system has infected around 10% of Chabad, and it is time we threw them out!
Izzy from Baltimore
I believe it may be time to consider ostracizing those who still maintain that the Rebbe zt’l, *is* Moshiach. Their actions (whether dancing and playing instruments at the Rebbe’s burial, throwing s’forim at others to whom they disagree, forcing their flags and flyers into others’ simchas, or publishing advertisements/billboards/etc. that only show their mental instability) should have been dealt with earlier. If the leaders had been religiously ostracized, the followers would have come back to mainstream Chabad. Instead, we have had years of mentally unstable people being in charge of 770, and proclaiming that they speak for Chabad.
Rafael V Rabinovich
“Against Orthodox Jewish teaching”?!
I think Mr. Lovchinsky needs to learn over his Gemara Sanhedrin 98b: “If Moshiach is among the living, then he is like Rabbeinu HaKadosh. If he is among the dead, then he is like Daniel Ish Chamudos”.
The Gemara considers Moshiach as either being among the living or among the dead, and that has nothing to do with the Yeshu “resemblance” he so fears.
Furthermore, the Rebbe does meet the requirements for Moshiach as taught by the Rambam in Hilchos Melachim. Needless to say, Yeshu did not meet such requirements and therefore was never a candidate for Moshiach bichlal.
To #2 from Gedaliah Goodman
It’s interesting you coferiim never put your name on anything you
say or write. I guess it’s because you are really very ashamed of yourselves. You people need to learn, at least how to learn, about Torah true Yiddishkeit. YOU are what I always say, A little boy in
short pants, and as usual without a name. As far as the girls & women, they are all for sure in short skirts. And their parents &
husbands even walk the streets with these women! Why? As I say little boys in short pants. From Gedaliah Goodman to ALL you no names, little boys & little girls in short pants & short skirts.
Chabadnik
The question that should be asked is this — is someone who is NOT Chabad properly practicing Judaism? The answer to that question is no.
Milhouse
Mr Lopchinsky has a strange metric for what is an acceptable Jewish belief. He seems to think it can be measured by how many died after it was adopted by some, as if one caused the other. I have a simple question for Mr Lopchinsky: Not just a handful but *most* Jews accepted Bar Kochva as Moshiach; as a *direct* result, hundreds of thousands died, and EY was devastated. Not a tree remained standing in all of Judea. Does that mean they were wrong to have believed in him? Does it mean if a second Bar Kochva were to have arisen *the very next day* they should not have followed him? Look in the Rambam, who says they were *right* to have followed him, and if another such person arises we must follow him too, no matter how many people die as a result. So the body count is irrelevant when deciding whether a belief is within or outside the bounds of Orthodox Judaism.
Now we can deal with his contention that the belief, by a tiny number of Jews 1980-something years ago (*not* 2011!), that their deceased rebbe was the Moshiach, caused the death of even one Jew, let alone millions: and the obvious answer is that it’s nonsense. The Jewish Christians did not kill anybody, they did not harm anybody, and there is no reason to believe Chazal had any problem with them. They were an obscure sect of Orthodox Jews, just one ingredient in the huge salad that was Orthodox Judaism at the time. Few had heard of their rebbe when he was alive, and few followed him after his death. Then one new member of this small group, who had never known the rebbe in his life, decided that if they were having no luck recruiting Yidden they should recruit Bnei Noach to the cause. But rather than maintain a distinction between Yidden and Bnei Noach, he insisted that “Chassidim Zenen Ein Mishpoche”, and the Jewish and Goyishe Christians must mix together, eat together, and ch“v intermarry with each other. Otherwise it would be ”discrimination“. Not only did these goyim accept yiddishkeit, they didn’t even give up their antisemitism; and they quickly became a majority and took over the organisation. After about 300 years they recruited the Roman Emperor to their cause; and *that’s* when Jews started to die.
So the lesson to be learned from them is not that we shouldn’t accept someone as Moshiach, but that we should be careful about giyur kehalocho, and maintaining the barrier between Yidden and Bnei Noach. Just because a goy says ”Yechi“ doesn’t make him a yid. A yid who does not say ”Yechi“ is a Ben Avrohom Yitzchok Veyaakov, while a goy who says ”Yechi” remains a goy. And that will preserve us Ad Bias Goel, whoever he turns out to be.
Yossi
As a Lubavitcher I agree with the writer of the letter. It is not normative Judaism or in the principles of chasidus to believe that the Rebbe, post histalkus is Moshiach and taht belief or lack therof has no bearing on one’s status as a chosid of the Rebbe.
If you disagree, you are entitled to your opinion, you do not however have the right to declare someone that follows the Rebbe’s directives not a chosid, if they don’t follow your belief, which everyone agrees is strange and certainly not a tenet of Chabad Chasiduds.
The notion that people use the term shlita for the Rebbe after the histalkus reflects an immaturity and is certainly counter to normative Jewish practices of the past 2000+ years.
I think it is important to bear on mind, while everything the Rebbe said is holy, it does not mean that every “diyuk” it is all to be applied literally in all situations, as in post histalkus. Belief in the Rebbe being moshiach is not like chitas, Rambam, mivtzoim, belief in Hashgacha pratis, etc that are MAJOR tenets of Chabad chasidus.
sebag
He’s not wrong. There is “Chabad” and then there is the meshugenehs.
Not concerned
Will Lubavitch Continue to be Jewish???
Lubavitch kept the spark of Judaisim alive in the soviet Union and have ignited the spark and flame of Judaisim and Torah and Mitzvos across the world.
Yes! There is a group of Chabad Chassidim who are taking the words of the Rebbe in a very extreme way. Those who know Chabad would realize that a very small percentage of Chabad children are raised with these extreme views, although in fact they are based on authentic Jewish sources and opinions. Many of these individuals take all aspects of Judaisim to an extreme and are most meticulously observant of all Mitzvos. Will they end up deviating from “authentic” Torah Judaisim? Far less likely then anyone from any other Frum background.
ariela
he is the Moshiach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shimon
In your dreams 10%. Way more. WAY MORE.
Morristown Bochur
“Against accepted orthodox jewish teachings” You better go ahead and learn what orthodox teaching is all about before you start opening up your mouth! It says in the gemara that moshiach can be from the dead (sanhedrin daf 99), and the Rambam (who is the only commentator regarding the laws of who is qualified to be the messiah) himself writes that if a man has been killed than he is disqualified from being the messiah. (hence not if he died).
Go learn your information and than start bashing Chabad!
Andrea Schonberger
As far as I know the Rebbe never, ever said or even implied that he was Moshiach and Chabad is definitely not a Jews for you know who organization. Perhaps some of the Rebbe’s followers were so impressed with his scholarship and commitment to performing mitzvot that they took it upon themselves to call him Moshiach and just got carried away.
wow
you silly!
you obviously never learnt the rebbes sichas and listened to what the rebbe said at all for if u would have you would know with certainty that the rebbe mhm is our reddemer and will bring us out of golus.and to number 2 what kind of jew are you if you would say that because someone believes and follows the rebbe they should be “thrown out”
would the rebbe mhm want this???
no of course not but obviously you dont follow the rebbes guidence you follow yoursef and that my friend is your problem!
I have more questions....
to Mr./Mrs 2#
1. who do you believe is moshiach?
2. when is HE coming?
3. can he be from the dead?
4. what exactly does Judaism say that you feel “our brethren are not practicing Judaism”?
5. are you as orthodox as Richard (not sure his Jewish name) is?
6. since you state that “a strange belief system has infected around 10% of Chabad” I cant help but wonder what is do the (around) 90% of un-infected Chabad belief?
Your raised more questions then you answered!
Oh, one more thing, how does one Join “Chabad” (the good 90% part)?
levi r
the author reeks of ignorance
Boring...
so so boring zzz
sd
dude before u start judging people about ther jewdeism get a jewish name richard is not to jewish sounding
leave us alone
the last time i checked shluhim bring peaple back to judiasam and to number 2 what about the other 90 percent of chabad are they also infected by this strange beleif system and probably double the amount of non chabad peaple are infected with this strange belief system
weak analogy
Whatever Mr Lopchinsky believes or doesn’t believe in re Moshiach, still his analogy and comparison is extremely weak.
Based on his logic it would mean that the whole concept of Messiah should not be discussed in Judaism as it is a christian belief.
and the concept of resurrection should also not be a Jewish belief, since they believe in resurrection.
The idea of reward and punishment, after life on this world should be scrapped.
Davening to the east and bowing in shmoneh esrai should not be allowed . the Muslims do that.
In any case his arrogance leads to ignorance. He can check out the Sdei Chemed and will find that he says that Moshiach may come from a tzaddik that has already passed from this world.
Or he can look up the Rashi at the end of Daniel. Rashi says that after Moshiach comes he will go into a hidden place for many years and then return. (I hope Mr Lopchinsky is not so foolish to explain the Rashi that Moshiach will be hiding in a basement in Jerusalem somewhere).
Middle Man
Agree with #2, mostly. Lopchinsky isn’t attacking all of Chabad; he even compliments Chabad of Westchester’s ad. His issue is clearly just with “Kabbolas Hamalchus” (i.e. Mishichists), who adhere to a tenuously kosher hashkafah. And by “tenuously kosher” I mean “against halacha.”
Does someone doing something against halacha make them “not Jewish”? Not sure what that means, exactly, but I be Mr. Lopchinsky, and a good portion of the rest of the frum world, would not count a member of Kabbolas Hamalchus for a minyan.
Last point–#2, I’m very sorry, but the Mishichists were certainly not “thrown out.” They’re present and presently represent, in the mind of many non-Lubavichers, what Chabad means today. That’s ignorant, true, but it’s not like the rest of the Lubavich has made a lot of noise about these people being outcasts. (Compare how most frum people talk about Neturei Karta.)
my two
it’s not news that chi is virulently anti-yechi but it’s 19 years already since this fight began and it’s enough already.
each believes as he believes and it won’t be settled ’till moshiach comes.in the mean time,stop the negativity. we each have to do our part and stop worrying about what the “opposite camp” is up to.
to 2
you think its only 10%?
Dovid
Gedalya goodman, I don’t know you or how long you have been frum for but you are treading on dangerous ground, ground that will ultimately put you and your friends and aquaintances (both jewish and non jewish) adrift from the rest of klal yisroel.
I know the meshichistim have newly discovered sources for their beliefs, however these were never quoted by chabad or the Rebbe ZY”A prior to 3 Tammuz. Moshiach min hamesimn is not a Jewish concept. Period.
Bottom line is that Meshichistim are selfish, they just want to feel good and pretend 3 Tammuz never happend. The problem is that this selfishness has terrible ramifications, the most noteworthy one is that it is turning many people away from chabad, the Rebbe and Chassidus.
what??
“To think that the rebbe, who died over a decade ago, could possibly be the Moshiach is against accepted Orthodox Jewish teachings”
Can this guy find me a source for that please,i can show him a few where it says it is ok(rambam,abarbanel,Gemorah, etc…….)
To; gedaliah goodman
True, those that think that moshiach can not be from the deceased are unaware of the gemara sunhedrin 98b, also quoted in sefer “yeshuois meshichoi” from the abarnebel.
Then again, those that claim that they know who moshiach is are ignorant from t’shuvas from the ch’sam sofer and others, and unfortunately have misunderstood different sichos from the Rebbe, such as quoting lines “the nosi hador is moshiach ha’dor” out of context, without taking a look at the bartenurah and teshuvah from the chsam sofer cited in the sicha!
Raanan Isseroff
this is what Raanan Isseroff commented on their website:
It is in fact “accepted Orthodox teachings”.
It is just that YOU have not learned them. Just like there are many Jewish laws that people do not learn, (and that you have not learned) such as the laws of death and dying, which even the greatest Rabbis do not learn until they are needed.
So because you haven’t learned it, it is Lubavitch’s fault?
So too, there are many many laws about the Jewish Moshiach (Messiah) and as uncomfortable as Jews are with this, the Christian origin for their (misguided) ideas about Moshiach are Jewish. (although they have taken Jewish names and pasted them onto completely non-Jewish foreign elements, ideas and thoughts completely twisting around their names original Jewish meanings and definition to be the opposite of what Judaism stands for.)
Still our being uncomfortable with another religion’s stealing of true Jewish ideas and misusing them and in fact “credentialing” their ideas with Jewish sounding names does not in the least detract from what the original Jewish idea is!
Many of these ideas (and you can find a number in Rambam’s book of Kings and in the Chofetz Chaim’s “Tzipisa LeYeshua”) come from the Gemora, medrash, Halacha as well as from more esoteric sources. However the basic requirements of waiting and hoping for our redeemer mean also that we must believe it could happen at any moment and as well that it is possible our Rosh Yeshiva might be the Moshiach of the generation.
Lubavitch only brings this idea to the fore.
If one wants to believe that their Rosh Yeshiva could be the Moshiach of the generation, there is ample source material for this. (even if one believes this could happen from one who is dead)
The sources and reasons for this as well are well documented. But again the whole matter requires study and this is something that Lubavitch has been doing for the last 60 years. While others have not. Hence, it is not unexpected that people would “have what to say”.
People who know how to learn such as HaRav Hagaon Soloveitchik z“Tz”l do understand this point. This is why Rav Soleveitchik published the letter in the Jewish Press that he published explaining that Lubavitch’s ideas about a Moshiach who can come from the dead is not unfounded in Jewish thought and halacha. etc
The point is, that the matter requires study.
If someone is a serious scholar, he will study and understand.
If he doesn’t so let him learn.
It is like the person who says to his rabbi: “Rabbi- there is something wrong with this gemora. I don’t understand it….”
So the Rabbi tells him:
“There is nothing wrong with the Gemorra. The Gemora is G-d’s word!
There is something wrong with YOU, that you don’t understand it!”
Best,
Raanan Isseroff
Brooklyn
Commenter
Just a comment – normal people don’t go round screaming they’re normal – abnormal people do go round screaming they’re abnormal!
The vast majority of Chabadniks practice Yiddishkeit as normally as any other Yid. Unfortunately, there is the vocal fringe who have to let everyone know they are there.
Chani
Last I checked the Beis HaMikdash has not yet been erected. Last I checked the lion and the lamb have not yet lied down with each other. Whoever the Mashiach is….He’s not yet been revealed. The world is in bad shape…so I do hope “he” comes quickly.
Henoch
Anyone who says that the niftar returning as moshiach is not a Jewish idea clearly doesn’t learn Torah.
brother from the hood
millhouse says it the best .. hats off to you
agreed with #25 totally!
The first post reeks of sillyville – but heck whatever makes you happy right? While the author of that letter doesn’t really have all the issues lined up – the general idea is correct – and like all say now in chabad – whatever!
To Gedaliah Goodman
I think there’s fear on both sides: Those of us who do not believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach may just be afraid of geulah and change of the world as we know it, and those of us who do believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach may just be afraid of the possibility that the Rebbe is not Moshiach.
There’s also another major issue at hand here: Seder in Lubavitch. This is an issue that has nothing to do with the Moshiach issue. In other words, if I opened an office right next to Beis Moshiach’s office calling myself Beis Moshiach, or another huge yeshivah next to Oholei Torah calling myself Oholei Torah, it would create major problems. What we are disputing among ourselves–the Moshiach issue–is not the issue. The issue is that we have one institution called Chabad and two groups of people claiming to speak for it.
Regards,
Mendy Hecht
yesef
If Richard L (the letter’s author) has not been lately to 770, he ain’t seen anything yet
es
The debate is based on ignorance. The radvaz, accepted posek writes clearly that ALL tzaddikim of ALL generations will be resurected BEFORE the third temple is rebuilt. It is alco cited by Midrash, Rashi and others that Moshaich will have two periods of revealtion the first to a select few then “disappear” and then reveal himself to all of Israel. The confusion about xtianity is that they claim the GEULA already occured, which of course is much different than the understanding the identity of Moshiach. The Rebbe did in fact tell us that the GUELA is close at hand and he also told us who Moshaich is , read sefer hasichos 1990 page 15 and 255. The fact is anyone who objectively reads this subject in the sichos in their ENTIRETY has no doubts. If you want an unbiased viewpoint look at the book ‘messiah texts’ written by a biblical scholar in the 70’s – in the preface he discusses this exact topic. Let’s get real people , before gimmel tamuz they screamed the Rebbe can’t be moshiach since Moshiach comes from Heaven and after gimmel tamuz its now this. Have pride in the truth and what the Rebbe taught us – don’t turn your backs on fellow lubavitchers. At the very least educate yourselves about this topic from the sichos, gemora’s with meforshim, you will find so many unexpected views about Moshiach (I.e king chizkiah was going to be hidden away to be moshaich for a future generation or the Ramban saying a similar thing about Moshaich being hidden away for hundres of years in his public debate) that you will start to realize there is no such thing as a normative opinion about the exact way Moshaichs revalation will take place so all these objections to the truth of the Rebbe being Moshaich are wind and chaff.
Milhouse
The great irony is that most of those who loudly proclaim that believing in a deceased moshiach is some sort of heresy, and that those who so believe should be removed from klal yisroel, are themselves guilty of holding a belief far more foreign to Jewish thought, and far more likely to be kefirah: Zionism. Anyone who believes that the Medinah is “reshit tzmichat geulatenu”, says hallel on the 5th of Iyar (especially with a brocho!), ascribes halachic authority to the Rabbanut, and “din melech” to the Knesset, is in *no* position to criticise even the most radical meshichistn.
Yosel
“To think that the rebbe, who died over a decade ago, could possibly be the Moshiach is against accepted Orthodox Jewish teachings”.
He’s all confused! The members of this “Kabbolas Hamalchus” organization probably don’t believe he passed away over a decade ago. That makes them, at worst, a band of nuts. Certainly not Kofrim.
On the other hand, the vast majority of mainstream Lubavitchers whom he praises actually believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach despite Gimmel Tammuz. Not that that would be Kefira either, even if it were completely wrong.
Just felt I should clarify a common misconception.
confused
the problem with all the comments is that they all make sense unfortunately. we are all so confused by what goes on today that we don’t even know what and who to believe anymore. so i take turns one day i feel one way and another day a different way. and some days i just feel nothing.
To #3 & #25 & #30 from Gedaliah Goodman
CDavid, I have been part of the Rebbe’s army since 1972. I was reared by my grandparents who were Muncatcher chassidim. Way before
I ever heard of Chabad I was taught to live with Moshiach & geulah.
Way before I heard anything about Moshiach from Chadbad, I heard it
from my grandparents. And it was in Yiddish, the dying language of
the Yiddisheh folk, including the Chabad-Lubavitch chassidim. Go
speak to the youth. They hardly understand anything, much less
Yiddish. My Bubbe taught me, even when I was a baby, that in Muncatch,“ Mir zugt a hein a Torah, a heer a Torah, altz uphengigk in Moshiach.” That means, “Here a Torah, there a Torah, EVERYTHING depends on Moshiach”. Look around you & you will see, & must admit that, that is the case. You never learned it, you don’t understand it, but, it is what it is. Even the poor Muncatcher chassidim of today, if there are any left, most were killed in the war, R’L,
have forgotten their heritage. More people in the world are learning Torah today, than at ANY time in history, through the many
books, classes, on T.V., internet, yeshivahs, etc., and Chani writes how bad the situation in the world is!! Think about it. Really think about it. More Torah being taught & learned than at in time in history. And she says how bad it is in the world that is so full of Torah. The gemmorah says it very clearly, Torah will either be Sahm Chaim, or Sahm mawves, R’L. That means that the Torah will either be an elixir of life, or the opposite, G-d forbid. We in Chabad keep seeing the tragedies in the Chabad communities, and it’s time we recognize that the Torah that the
majority of the Chabad teachers, shluchim, mashpiim, etc., are giving over is surely NOT an elixir of life, & is very obviously
the opposite. Gavi & Rivkah, & to many more to talk about. The Rebbe MHM said it very clearly many years ago, the goyim give over
sheker with an emess, & we give over emess, with a sheker.
Izzy, the Rebbe MHM sent me 6 times to Baltimore. To do what? To
try to break the klipah of the torah that is the foundation of the evil form of Yiddishkeit that prevails in not just Baltimore, but Maryland and in most places in the world. I was not successful at all. I told the Rebbe & he sent me back again, again, etc. You are just another one of my failures, sad to say. The amazing thing is that you are so happy with your torah life R’L. Thats the power of the sitra acherah, satan, klipah, etc., that you get from your torah life. That’s torah without a capital t. It does not deserve a capital letter, it needs to be broken as the Rebbe MHM told me,
“Try to break the klipah of their torah”.
Here a Torah, there a Torah, everything depends on MELECH HAMOSHIACH.
moishe
mr lopachinsky is right u dont do things that are not accepted by people these ads are just to make trouble
Yid
guys, its been like TWO DECADES since this narishkeit so don’t loose sleep over a stupid letter written in some newspaper. The Classifieds are more interesting then some letter to the editor. Or maybee the column where rebetzin xyz teaches you what to put in your kugul
but this chuchem seems to be very concerned about a very relevant issue,
get a life
And to all you who worry about what others will think of you, given the behavier of your fellow mishichistin, perhaps its time you too should get on with yourselves and give attention to the more important things in life
Yid
Andrea, take this advice, go to any chabad bookstore or chabad family you will see amoungst the hundred or so books written by the Lubavicher Rebbe. Then ask your host if he or she can find you where in those volumes the rebbe spoke about mashiach, or spoke about Rabbi Yosef Schneerson as moshiach, or spoke about himself as moshiach. Or maybe Moses as moshiach. you have no idea what your in for.
You can’t simply read a book on chabad and think you know something about it or its teachings. It’s teachings are very, very deep, and cover huge libraries.
most lubavitchers have studied chadius literature for more at least a decade, if not all their lives. You need to study a lot before copy pasting what the rebbe said about his being moshiach or not.
EVERYTHING IS CLEAR!!!
the rebbe is moshiach PERIOD!
Whats the question? We know! Let them think whatever they want, when the Rebbe redeems us they’ll feel like idiots!
gimmel tammuz does NOT change that the Rebbe is Moshiach! The Rebbe said about the Freidiker Rebbe after yud shvat “Vihu Yigaleinu”
A CONSERNED CROWN HEIGHTSER
ACCORDING TO THE RAMBM IN HILCHOS MELOCHIM CHAPTER 12;
A PERSON SHOULD NOT GET INVOLVED IN ALL THE DIFFRENT AGODUS ABOUT MOSHIAC’S COMING, BECAUSE THIS DOES NOT BRING TO HAVE FEAR AND LOVE TO HASHEM
‘THERE IS NO MITZVAH IN THE TORAH TO SAY -WHO- IS MOSHIACH BUT THERE IS A MITZVAH IN THE TORAH TO SAY MOSHIACH IS COMING’.
THAT’S WHAT THE REBBE WROTE TO THE SHLUCHIM AT THEIR CONFERENSE
WHEN THEY ASKED WHAT THEY SHOUD TELL THE WORLD.
THE PHYLOSOPHY OF CHABAD IS TO BRING PEOPLE CLOER TO YIDDISHKEIT AND THIS PROPOGANDA DOES THE OPPOSITE. IT MAKES THE SHLUCHIM’S WORK MORE DIFFICULT AND IT DOES NOT BRING KOVOD TO THE REBBE.
The REBBE CANNOT Be Moshiach
Before anyone can be considered the “actual” Mashiach, he has to qualify as a presumed Mashiach.
In order to qualify as “presumed” mashiach, Rambam says:
….. if he will COMPEL ALL OF ISRAEL to walk in [the way of the Torah] and repair the breaches [in its observance]; we may, with assurance, presume him to be Mashiach.
The REBBE did not and could not have compelled ALL of Israel to walk in the ways of Torah, because ALL means precisely that “everyone.” That is, every single Jew on the face of the earth. Further, “compels” does not mean you send a schliach to some community in the world who “encourages” people to walk in the ways of Torah. Compels means the you leave people no choice, BUT to walk in the ways of Torah.
In short, the REBBE did not COMPEL ALL JEWS IN THE WORLD to walk in the ways of Torah. That is an irrefutable fact, since even in spite of the REBBE’s efforts and HIS Schluchim’s unquestionable dedication, the vast majority of Jews today are non-observant, and according to Rambam even if there is ONE NON-OBSERVANT JEW IN THE WORLD, WE CANNOT HAVE A “PRESUMED” MASHIACH.
anonymous
HaShem is here, HaShem is there, HaShem is truly everywhere….remember the song…WE WANT MOSHIACH NOW…..
Chabad is Life – Torah Life….As in everything else in life, there are a few “bad apples”, after all, we are only human, but without Chabad where would we be? I truly don’t want to know the answer to that question.
Chabad is Life, Chabad gives dignity to the dying, Chabad is Family…..Chabad is Learning…..Chabad is……
to gedalia goodman
I’ll see you for free at the outpatient clinic i work for. forget insurance and co-pays; for the sake of klal yisrael i’ll see you twice a week! you need serious help!
(just one comment: what gives you the right to judge and say that: “The amazing thing is that you are so happy with your torah life R’L. Thats the power of the sitra acherah, satan, klipah, etc., that you get from your torah life. That’s torah without a capital t. It does not deserve a capital letter,”??? How do you know any of our lives? Who made you the ultimate judge? And whatever happened to ahavas yisrael? remember the one inyan that the Rebbe spoke about for the whole nisiyus and made his first and last maamar?
ur all missing the point
its not important who mashoach is, but that we want him to come. as long as we fight if it is or not the rebbe, we are causing him pain, and pushing off his coming ch”v. stop forcing our beliefs in others, and jusyt accept each other so that he comes, whomever he may be
To #48 from Gedaliah Goodman
I was learning in kollel in Eretz Yisrael for 8 years, not a typical thing for a Chabad chossid. In 1984 the Rebbe MHM asked me to return to the U.S. to do a special shlichus for the Rebbe MHM.
The Rebbe MHM told me he wanted me out in the world, and to use my
special talents with training horses to reach the people that the Rebbe was not being able to reach and to use my shlichus to help
reveal MOSHIACH & Geulah in the world,as I traveled much troughout the world, buying, selling, & training horses. That was 1984! I am
only relating this in short, as you can understand, many years have passed & there is much to convey. The Rebbe MHM gave me many
instuctions & works very close with me, constantly encouraging me
to press forward. I understand you do not like the instructions &
the message but I will do my best to continue to follow these Holy
instructions, such as, “You should be seen, heard & be Matzliach”.
The Rambam says that one is OBLIGATED to JUDGE, so that one can guide & protect himself, family, friends, etc., from the bad influences that are prevalent in the world. If that is also difficult for you to grasp, so be it. The Holy Torah has warned us
to protect ourselves from, the yetzer horah(the snake),idolatry(the
golden calf), immorality-znus(baal peor), and many other very subtle evils. The unholy torah, with a little t, is so prevelant
in the world, and one must be aware of it’s existance & try to protect against it, at all costs. The Maamorim, BOSI L’GANI, has as it’s main theme, throughout ALL of the Maamorim, one main teaching & one main point, as I understand it, and that is NETZACHON(victory). MOSHIACH prevails & will continue to prevail.
Here a Torah, there a Torah, everything depends on MOSHIACH. And
again, this is not for little boys in short pants.
YECHI HAMELECH
To Crownheights.info
This letter doesn’t attack the entire Lubavitch movement, just “this group” called “Kabbolas Hamalchus”. You’re looking for enemies where none exist, maybe out of paranoia. Critical reading skills would do you so much good.
Confused
44. EVERYTHING IS CLEAR!!! wrote:
the rebbe is moshiach PERIOD!
Whats the question? We know! Let them think whatever they want, when the Rebbe redeems us they’ll feel like idiots!
gimmel tammuz does NOT change that the Rebbe is Moshiach! The Rebbe said about the Freidiker Rebbe after yud shvat “Vihu Yigaleinu”
I’m confused. If the Rebbe said that the Freidiker Rebbe is Moshiach, how can he himself be Moshiach? Was he lying about the previous Rebbe?
Hate to admit it BUT....
I think #46 has a very good point.
We always hear meschichistim hanging their hat on literal interpretation of Rambam (i.e. Rambam says “killed” NOT “dies”). Rambam does say one can be considered b’heskas hamoshiach if he “COMPELS ALL Israel” and the Rebbe did not compel all of Israel neither before gimmel tammuz, nor afterwards.
How could a meshichist argue with that?
es
#48 read the Rambam again.
presumed is engaging in these activities.
(and mind you 100’s of rabbonim from within Chabad and outside of Chabad signed a psak din that the Rebbe qualified as chezkas Moshiach)
V’dai is fully succeeding.
Of course if you spend the time to learn the whole sugya of Moshiach in depth you also realize that there is a difference between the title Moshiach without a qualifier , which the Rebbe highlights was given properly in generations past , and calling them Moshiach V’dai according to halacha in Rambam. The characterization of Moshiach without a qualifier has many levels within it , each according to that generations specifics. For us of course we have the Rebbe’s clear statements hundreds of times(not yehi ratzon) and Nevua that this is THE LAST generation of exile and FIRST of Geula. We also have the Rebbe’s clear statement that Moshiach has ALREADY stood up on the roof the bais hamikdosh ( which the Rebbe clarified is 770 , since roof is a remez for chutz la’aretz) and told us “The time of our redemption has arrived”.
Its not anyones fault for having sfai’kos , golus has done a real number on us and its gone on way too long , but the Rebbe taught us that the straight path to Geula is learning about Moshiach and Geula in the sichos and ma’amorim of the Rebbbe , plus all the traditional sources. If you make the effort to do that theres an excellent chance that your sfaikos will disappear.
to 53 and Know Your Sources.
In answer to your question: it means during the time of redemption.
Also for everyone who is curious to know more info on the coming of Moshiach and who is Moshiach see: Likkutei Sichos vol 9 (Likkkutei Sichos vol 9 p. 105 more specifically) also as well as page.381. (Also see Rambam and Talmud who amongst other things say that Moshiach can be from the living or from those who have lived before) I think its fair and healthy to question. But like everything,sources are mandatory. Mr.Richard Lopchinsky my last sentence was for you.
admosi
Gosh, Moshiach is viral once again!
I don’t know what I believe in, but I’m a huge ANTI…….EXTREAMIST.
Let me explain.
Sending seforim and chumus flying across 770 b/c the Rebbe is moshiach is EXTREAM.
Choking somone and throing him down from the fabrengin platform in front of a 7 year old kid is EXTREAM. (When I was a small sheltered 7 year old @ the Kinus my counsler (from detroit) used vilence to remove a tzvati from the platform – as I watched. 4give me for gussing it was fused by debate.)
Lets remember why the Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed and we are now in exile.
NO AHAVAS YISROEL & SINAS CHINUM!!
Attn mishachist:
When in or at a moisid that dose not say yichi, being a dafkanik & saying yechi (or plastering the parade with propaganda) will NOT bring Moshiach closer.
Attn antis:
When in or at a moisid that sais yechi, tearing down signs and/or being vary midayik on ziya etc. (or working as under cover agents at the paraid) will NOT bring Moshiach closer.
PLEASE lets all work on what we can all agree on:
WE WANT MOSHIACH NOW!
(We all do, right?!)
You kinda get that ‘this has gone to far’ vibe when you see such a article.
We shuld all print comment #45 and display it next to our beads.
When we can all get along and hold hands and shout up to our father:
“G-d, we got the point. Your children are eating eachother alive. ADMOSI – WE NEED MOSHIACH NOW NOW NOW!!!”
Dovid Hompes
And the patients are still running the asylum.
compelling isn-t physical force
to no. 53:“Rambam does say one can be considered b’heskas hamoshiach if he “COMPELS ALL Israel”:
the Rebbe’s way of compelling is like that of what occurred by Matan Torah, ”KOFA aleihem har kegigis“ There was such an overwhelming G-dly revelation that we were ”compelled“ to accept the Torah by ”force” of a great love for and recognition of G-d.
And that is the exact accomplishment of the Rebbe, by sheer force of his goodness and greatness, hundreds and thousands, hundreds OF thousands, probably millions have been touched enough to accept some Yiddishkeit upon themselves, enough to admit their Jewishness and do a mitzvah or two.
Just as Yidden left Mitzrayim with barely those two mitzvos of Pesach and milah in hand, so too, Yidden will leave this golus with those identifying, representative mitzvos which the Rebbe inspired/s them to do,through us, his shluchim.
Not affiliated with any group.
The real Arguement !
In the non chabbad world the Arguement is whether you are waiting and wanting
Moshiach verses not believing in moshiach
Period (being a kofer cvs). Nothing to do
With who it is etc. . Most Jews are sleeping and don’t
Give a hoot about moshiach. No problem.
Hashem loves all his people and will shake
The carpet under their feet until they will
Screem for Mashiach. (Obama, us $ worth 0$, anti semitism, machala cvs etc….)
In the chabbad world it is “chabbad light” verses
Chabbad the way the rebbe instructed.
(no need to fight there! Just respect each other! )
You are both on the same team with different
Spiritual abilities. We are not all the same! We each
Have a different spiritual source, power , and are
Not moved and excited about the same Torah that we
Learn. On the contrary, you should stick together
And support each other rather than bash at each other.
The rebbe left you guys in charge to bring
Moshiach and you guys a goofing it up with all
This nonsense. Forget about your $, kavod ,
Yichus. It is all klipa!!!
Grow up rabbis with short pants
Just as that mr. Goodman stated.
We want Mashiach now. Let’s tell it to the world.
In the chabbad world the problem
one more question for gedalya goodman
what the heck is the “kids in short pants” thing?
45 IS RIGHT!
READ IT AGAIN, INTERNALIZE IT, AND SPREAD THE MESSAGE!
It never was a Question
It has always been clear that anyone who believe in a dead Messiah has left the fold of Judaism.
It also has always been clear that anyone can pervert sources, as demonstrated by the ridiculous posts of Meshichistim here and throughout the years since the Rebbe obm’s histalkus. It’s the same old story all over again.
The Meshichistim and those who defend them are the laughing stock of everyone. They certainly are only besmirching and harming the noble heritage of Chabad, and directly influencing other Jews to want to have nothing to do with Lubavitch.
It is a failed movement that has been destroyed by lies and deceptions. A very very sad situation.
To #60 from Gedaliah Goodman
At the race track they have a saying, “Horse racing is not for little boys in short pants”. It’s a very fun & exciting business,
The Sport of Kings, but it is alot of hard work, very competetive,
expensive, challenging, etc. When the Rebbe MHM asked me to do this special shlichus, the Rebbe MHM said I should go to R. Hodakov who was in charge of shlichus at the time. I answered the Rebbe MHM, no, I was not interested in being part of the shluchim
being sent out from the ‘office’. The Rebbe MHM smiled & asked me why? I answered the Rebbe MHM, ‘because these shlichim are not behind the Rebbe, they will not follow, & are not following the Rebbe’s derech, & they will only follow their own daas when put under pressure, I know my ‘horses’. The Rebbe MHM became very serious and said, “ It has been that way for along time, they have
fought against me from the very beginning”. Then the Rebbe MHM asked me to do this as a special shlichus for the Rebbe MHM. I received many brachot, haarot, advice, etc. Once the Rebbe MHM asked that I should get many of the chassidim to back this peulah
because I am able to get a lot of media attention, press, etc.
I did not want to approach these financially able, chassidim, &
supporter’s of Chabad. So my wife went to try to fulfill the Rebbe
MHM’s request. She got the answer that,’we support the Rebbe’s yeshivot, mosdos, Chabad houses, maamad, etc., etc. Always the same response. They cannot go beyond their limited intellect, & follow their own daas. I told my wife, “thats why I wasn’t willing
to go & ask them, I know my ‘horses very, very well, I knew that would be their answer, & I wanted to tell the Rebbe MHM only good &
positive things, now she had to tell the Rebbe MHM the response of
his chassidim(??) They couldn’t even do a simple thing like backing
this peulah, what did you expect of giving over and teaching Inyunei Geulah & Moshiach. Much less believing & accepting MOSHIACH
& GEULAH. What did the Rebbe MHM get ”little boys in short pants”.
If you don’t understand, then call them wimps, little boys sucking
their thumbs or their pacifiers. By the way, you can hear & see the
Rebbe MHM giving me one of many brachot, and giving my wife a dollar & then calling her back and telling her to also be involved
in the horses. Go to YouTube & put Gedaliah Goodman in the search
box, use both names as there are many Gedaliah’s on YouTube.
You cannot imagine the opposition I had & still have against me doing this for the Rebbe MHM. Yiddishkeit is as I always say, ‘Not
for little boys in short pants’.
YECHI HAMELECH
Question for Gedalia goodman
I have a question for Gedalia Goodman. I ask asking this from pure sincerity? Do u mind telling met the source for the Rambam saying we have to judge. Thank you. It will mean a lot to me.
Milhouse
#62 writes: “It has always been clear that anyone who believe in a dead Messiah has left the fold of Judaism.” If it has really always been clear, then surely you can find it written in a reliable source. At least one, surely must exist! If you cannot do so, then I expect and DEMAND that you retract your statement.
Still Confused
Can someone please enlighten me:
If the Rebbe believed that the Friedeker Rebbe was Moshiach, how can he himself be Moshiach? They both can’t be Moshiach.
It never was a Question - to Milhouse
Milhouse (and all Meshichistim and sympathizers), there are plenty of sources, so when will YOU retract your statements?
For starters, see: http://www.rabbis.org/news/…
Statement Regarding Chabad Messianism: Jun 1, 1996 — In light of disturbing developments which have recently arisen in the Jewish community, the Rabbinical Council of America in convention assembled declares that there is not and has never been a place in Judaism for the belief that Mashiach Ben David will begin his Messianic Mission only to experience death, burial, and resurrection before completing it.
See: _sim_b_1″ rel=”nofollow”>http://www.amazon.com/Can-R…
See: http://chassidusunlimited.c…
Nobody
#67, none of your sources quote anything to support the assertion – they just assert it.
The statement “and has never been a place” is just wrong, as the Arababenel writes exactly that (quoted nicely in the Artscroll on the Talmud Sanhedrin that everyone references above).
Milhouse
#67, since when is the RCA a source? The majority of the RCA are zionists!
David Berger yimach shmo is a source?! He’s also a zionist, besides being a fargoyisht academic so obsessed with his anti-missionary work that he’s lost sight of yiddishkeit. His religion isn’t Judaism, it’s “Not-Christianity”.
Gil Student and whoever runs that last site don’t even agree with your claim, so they’re surely not sources.
Show me ONE source “that anyone who believe in a dead Messiah has left the fold of Judaism”; just one. You can’t do it, because no such source exists.
Just as you can’t show me a source for the whole concept of a “false messiah”, as if it’s some sort of shame or insult to have been mistakenly thought of as Moshiach; no source for that exists either, because it’s a concept invented by the maskilim yimah shmom. (By the way, the RCA and David Berger and Gil Student all admire the maskilim and consider them gedolei hatorah!)
let me ask you a question
Is the Rebbe Nossi Hadoer?
moshichrist or not every normal Lubavitcher agrees that the Rebbe is Nossi Hadoer, (and if he does not he is going against every thing the Rebbe always stood for regarding the Frierdiker Rebbe,)
What is a Nossi Hadoer?
nossi and moshiach are one and the same.
and are you trying to say that every one before gimmel tammuz made a mistake, all the rabbonim, and yourself,
and don’t try to say, “that was then but now he is not any more” because it does not work like that, ONCE MOSHIACH ALWAYS MOSHIACH!
may we be zoiche not through Sinas Chinom but through Ahavas Chinom, to merit to see the Rebbe the only one that can be Moshiach, and he will take us out of gollus NOW!!
It never was a Question - to Milhouse
7. Milhouse wrote: Not just a handful but *most* Jews accepted Bar Kochva as Moshiach; as a *direct* result, hundreds of thousands died, and EY was devastated. Not a tree remained standing in all of Judea. Does that mean they were wrong to have believed in him? Does it mean if A SECOND Bar Kochva were to have arisen *the very next day* they should not have followed him?
— It is very revealing that Mr. Milhouse asks about a “second” Bar Kochva. Why didn’t just say, similar to the situation with the Meshechistim in Lubavitch, if the “same” Bar Kochva would have been resurrected the Jews would have been right to believe and accept him as Moshiach?
The answer is that subconsciously even Mr. Milhouse knows that in Judaism there is no such thing as a resurrected Messiah, it is totally a non-Jewish concept for an expected Messiah to return as the redeemer in a “second coming.”
BTW, what if he fails in his second coming, are we then supposed to await every day for his “third coming”? The whole notion is absurd.
Milhouse wrote: Look in the Rambam, who says they were *right* to have followed him, and if ANOTHER such person arises we must follow him too, no matter how many people die as a result.
— Again why did Milhouse write about “another” such person, and not about the same such person being resurrected? Because even Milhouse knows that such an idea doesn’t cut it in Judaism, and he inwardly knows this to be true.
Milhouse wrote: The Jewish Christians did not kill anybody, they did not harm anybody, and there is no reason to believe Chazal had any problem with them. They were an obscure sect of Orthodox Jews, just one ingredient in the huge salad that was Orthodox Judaism at the time… After about 300 years they recruited the Roman Emperor to their cause; and *that’s* when Jews started to die.
— Maybe Mr. Milhouse you should study some history, maybe take a course from Rabbi Dr. Burger, for you are way wrong about all this. Very early on there was violence and contention between the first Jewish Christians and the rest of the Jews. Under Rabban Gamliel II, who became the Nosi in Yavneh shortly after the birth of Christianity, ordered for the prayer ‘v’la’malshnim” to be composed and recited in Shemona Esrei in order to separate that group of believers in O’so Ha’ish from the Jews.
Milhouse wrote: A yid who does not say ”Yechi“ is a Ben Avrohom Yitzchok Veyaakov, while a goy who says ”Yechi” remains a goy. And that will preserve us Ad Bias Goel, whoever he turns out to be.
— Yes, that much is true, but it should be clear to all that any yid who does say “Yechi” is well on his/her way to becoming a goy, since they don’t believe in the Goel “whoever he turns out to be,” but only in a specific dead Messiah, who despite all the excellent qualities he had, did not merit to succeed in bringing the Geulah.
It never was a Question - to Milhouse
37. Milhouse wrote: The great irony is that most of those who loudly proclaim that believing in a deceased moshiach is some sort of heresy, and that those who so believe should be removed from klal yisroel, are themselves guilty of holding a belief far more foreign to Jewish thought, and far more likely to be kefirah: Zionism. Anyone who believes that the Medinah is “reshit tzmichat geulatenu”, says hallel on the 5th of Iyar (especially with a brocho!), ascribes halachic authority to the Rabbanut, and “din melech” to the Knesset, is in *no* position to criticise even the most radical meshichistn.
— Mr. Milhouse is unquestionably mad and way off in making these assertions. There is nothing in the 13 Principles of Judaism pro or con about Zionism. In no way can it be construed as kefirah.
With all your vitriol about anyone who says the medinah is a sign of “reshit tzmichat geulatenu” – how is that worse than the most radical meshichistn who say and publicize everywhere that “Moshiah is here,” who he is, etc., the Geulah is here, etc., it is not “rshit tzmichat geulatenu” for them, it is the “sof tzmichat geulaten,” they already have a “Moshiach vadai,” and although I don’t know if they say Halel on 10 Shvat, 11 Nisan or 3 Tamuz, I do know that they do celebrate a yom tov and feast, instead of fasting, on Tisha B’Av. Apparently though Mr. Milhouse has no real concerns for that idiocy.
In general, regarding the problems with Zionism and the Medina, perhaps Milhouse can recall a time when all Gedolim, peh echod, said it was forbidden to come to America. Funny how time has a way of changing things, and now America is one of the best places in the world for religious Jews. I suggest it is the same with Zionism and the Medina. The situation today is much different then it was so many years ago. Today there are incontrovertible facts on the ground that have changed.
It never was a Question - to Milhouse
65. Milhouse wrote: If it has really always been clear, then surely you can find it written in a reliable source. At least one, surely must exist! If you cannot do so, then I expect and DEMAND that you retract your statement.
— It is funny that you “DEMAND” things of everyone, but when it comes to the Meshichistim, even the wildest of them, you all of a sudden don’t demand, or even request, anything. Aside from being so funny, it is also, as I said before, very very sad. But your hypocrisy is particularly annoying.
It never was a Question - to Milhouse
66. Still Confused wrote: Can someone please enlighten me: If the Rebbe believed that the Friedeker Rebbe was Moshiach, how can he himself be Moshiach? They both can’t be Moshiach.
— Funny how Mr. Milhouse has not commented on your request for enlightenment. Maybe he, like all the Meshichistim, has NO ANSWER to your query. All they have is “phony baloney.”
It never was a Question - to Milhouse
69. Milhouse wrote: #67, since when is the RCA a source? The majority of the RCA are zionists! David Berger yimach shmo is a source?! He’s also a zionist, besides being a fargoyisht academic so obsessed with his anti-missionary work that he’s lost sight of yiddishkeit. His religion isn’t Judaism, it’s “Not-Christianity”.
— You asked for one source, and I provided several – many if you would only read them – yet you don’t accept it, and no matter what I would cite you would not accept it, because you don’t like the message. You will pervert things and take them out of context and change them around 180 degrees from what they actually say.
And because you don’t like the message so you shoot the messenger? And to write “yimach shmo” on erlicha Yiddin? You love the Meshichistim so much that anyone who criticizes them is “yimach shmo”? If I were you I’d invest in some fireproof clothing because I hear it is very hot down there where you are heading.
It is funny and sad at the same time. It’s like I said, the Meshichistim and their supporters are writing themselves off from the rest of Judaism. You yourselves are ready to go to war with any Jew who stands up to the atrocities you are perpetrating against traditional Judaism, and to do it you have no qualms about being “megalah ponim baTorah shelo k’halocha.” You are no longer a part of Klal Yisroel, in fact you are the enemy of Klal Yisroel – and of the Rebbe tz”l himself.
It never was a Question - to Fruit Cake
Milhouse wrote: Gil Student and whoever runs that last site don’t even agree with your claim, so they’re surely not sources. Show me ONE source “that anyone who believe in a dead Messiah has left the fold of Judaism”; just one. You can’t do it, because no such source exists.
— Surely you jest. Have you read those sources? Read the Rambam. It is there in black and white. Belief in a dead Messiah is not now and has never been accepted in Judaism. Why is it that such beliefs exist just among the followers of O’so Ha’ish, Shabbati Tzvi, and now the Rebbe tz”l. There are no other communities of Jews anywhere or at any time in our history that have believed such craziness, and you can judge people by the company they keep.
Milhouse wrote: Just as you can’t show me a source for the whole concept of a “false messiah”, as if it’s some sort of shame or insult to have been mistakenly thought of as Moshiach; no source for that exists either, because it’s a concept invented by the maskilim yimah shmom.
— No there is no source for the whole concept of a “false messiah”? What are you totally crazy? Are you saying there has never been a “false messiah” in all of Jewish history? There have been hundreds if not thousands of them. Now you believe in O’so Ha’ish and Shabbati Tzvi too? Let’s hear some more jewels from you, to prove even how big and nutty a fruit cake you are.
Milhouse wrote: (By the way, the RCA and David Berger and Gil Student all admire the maskilim and consider them gedolei hatorah!)
— Here you go again with your lies and shooting the messengers. A piece of fruit cake anyone?
Nobody
To “It was Never a Question.” The Rebbe himself believes in a resurected Moshiach – Likkutei Sichos, Chelek Bais, the Hosofos for Yid Gimmel Shvat.
What is trivial is to give sources for Moshiach being a ressurected person. It is a gemara, the Abarbanel speaks about it, the Rebbe speaks about it.
Now there may be countervailing opinions, but people who write polemics are not sources. A serious Gemmara, Rishon or Achron would be a good source. You can’t provide one because they don’t exist (to my knowledge, perhaps you can find one, but it would be an interesting question how to align them with the Gemara). The sources you give just give blind assertions, some of which (like the RCA’s) are easily refutable, and by and large are based in ignorance not scholarship.
Gedaliah Goodman
All the many places in the Torah, Gemmorah Sandedrin, the ARI HaCHAI HaKodesh in Arbah Meos Shekel Kesef, Rashi on Daniel, etc.,
all bring the idea that Moshiach will come & be revealed, be known,
& then will be concealed from the eyes of the people. The Alter
Rebbe said, “ The Moshiach that everyone wants, will never come, &
the Moshiach that comes, nobody will want”. Tehillim(Psalms)89 your
enemies have disgraced the footsteps of Moshiach. The gemmorah says that if you say to someone that your Rebbe is Moshiach, & the person answers you that your Rebbe is not Moshiach, & makes derogatory remarks about your Rebbe being Moshiach, you should tell
him that, “you are a MOMZER(bastard)”. What is the inyun of a momzer, illegitimate. The comments, questioning the Rebbe MHM being Moshiach, are just that, illegitimate, MOMZERES K’pshuto, plain & simple MOMZERES. The Torah says that war comes to the world because HaShem must rid the world of the MOMZERS. So please
people, please, Sha, sha, be quiet.
YECHI HAMELECH
realtime
kudos to kabalos hamalchus for keeping us thinking, moving forward and trying to educate each other. Sounds like everyone is looking for “knowledge of Gd”. All of these discussions might well be covering the earth with the world wide web
as the seas cover the earth! This talking about, looking for and wrestling with the reality and sources of the knowledge of Torah, Hashem and Geula/Moshiach.
The Rebbe MH”M dropped his concepts and campaigns into the world like a rock dropped in the water that has a tremendous ripple effect to the entire lake. Giving tzedaka daily one of the Rebbe’s campaigns = super simple. Read the label of thousands of companies today who are trying to outdo each other in donating to charity! The Rebbe in a sicha mentioned that hospitals and the like should be called Healing centers or wellness centers – not names that focus on illnes.
This was years ago….maybe some commentators will give us the year……Long before the “world” turned around it’s attitude about healing,thinking positive tracht gut vet zein gut, etc. etc.
The Rebbe MH“M as the 7th is working in the world in the only era in history in which it can be understood by the simplest child that the whole world could know instantly that Moshiach is here! This was formerly a nevua that chachamim were struggling to understand.
As everyone who has come before is saying to the ”condemnation by soundbyte crowd“ LEARN THE Writings and watch the hours and hours of farbrengens with the Rebbe MH”M and then think into the teaching and COME TO YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS AFTER STUDYING and thinking on your own….
A teacher & a Mashpia
CH.info offers a very good source of info for not just C.H., but
for the rest of the world. We have been discussing this article & all of the comments for a few days now in yeshivah & classes that we have with the community. I know that you must keep putting up new info, but this is the most pressing issue of our time,and to put it on the back burner is really a shame. Many people told me they couldn’t find it and they would like to read it and also make
comments, but they feel it will not be put up. To make assertions that Chabad is not and will not be Jewish is a serious issue, you must agree. How many blacks are in Brooklyn should not push this critical story off of page 1. Just telling you our view and the view
of many, many others who would like to participate in this most important issue. Please consider this suggestion with your staff.
Thank you.