Melbourne's Yeshivah Centre. Photo: AJN file
Yeshivah Centre members in Melbourne have called for more democracy in the 52-year-old organisation after accusations the facility’s dayan, Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Telsner, censored their newsletter.
The Pesach edition of the publication included three articles discussing the value of removing or retaining the controversial “Yechi” sign on the wall of the main shul. But by the end of Pesach, the two pieces calling for a vote on its presence had been deleted from electronic and paper copies.
Agitating for Change over Yeshivah Censorship
Yeshivah Centre members in Melbourne have called for more democracy in the 52-year-old organisation after accusations the facility’s dayan, Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Telsner, censored their newsletter.
The Pesach edition of the publication included three articles discussing the value of removing or retaining the controversial “Yechi” sign on the wall of the main shul. But by the end of Pesach, the two pieces calling for a vote on its presence had been deleted from electronic and paper copies.
When asked for confirmation, Rabbi Telsner told The AJN he knew “nothing about it”.
However, in a letter to Rabbi Telsner, congregant David Werdiger claims that during a discussion they had had, the dayan admitted that he had instructed their removal.
Werdiger said he objected to the censorship and would, after 40 years, stop praying at the main Yeshivah shul. “It is sad and ironic that this has happened in our community, many of whose founders lived under an oppressive regime in Soviet Russia where there was a standard method for dealing with dissent,” Werdiger said.
The sign, according to an article by Yeshivah Gedolah head Rabbi Binyomin Cohen, implies that the late Lubavitcher Rebbe is the messiah and that he never really passed away.
Despite the sign being up for some years, its presence came to the fore in January when Rabbi Telsner excised a small group of people – the “Moshiach Men” – from the community.
A number of Yeshivah members called for the sign to be removed, claiming it was divisive and promoted disharmony. Despite securing more than 100 signatures, Rabbi Telsner and the va’ad ruchni, or committee, ignored the request.
Articles in the recent newsletter continued the debate about the Yechi sign. In the piece that was retained, Rabbi Cohen argued in favour of leaving the sign because that is what the late Yeshivah director, Rabbi Yitzchok Dovid Groner, wanted.
“There should be enough room for all of us, and no-one should feel that his emunah [faith] is going to be somehow compromised by davvening [praying] together with another Jew who sees things very differently,” Rabbi Cohen wrote.
Another congregant and one of the organisers of the petition, Yudi New, argued in the original newsletter that the shul was alienating members of the Jewish community, against its own philosophy. He called the sign a “slogan” and said there was no room for slogans in a place of worship, adding its benefits had not been made clear.
On a more general note, New implored the centre’s leadership to welcome mature debate among members. “Whatever course the leadership and community charters, we must concede that Yeshivah has become a shell of its former self.”
Another member, Pinchas Henenberg, also had his say before the newsletter was censored. “The issue is not going to go away by itself – responding ‘no comment’ to the public and instructing mispallelim [congregants] to ‘listen to your leaders and put aside your own thoughts and concerns’ simply exacerbates the issue,” he wrote, before calling for a public members vote.
Yeshiva davenner
making a mountain out of a molehill.
It’s been there for years,
just leave it alone.
Don’t let trivial things like this bother you!
Esp since it’s been there all this time,
it’s not like it was recently put up.
Democracy
They need to hold elections…plain and simple
sign must come down
It is clear that this issue is not going away and the community is being consumed by it and all the negativity there associated – the sign must come down
Telsner Compromised
It apperas that Telsner has been publicly compromised – his position could become untenable
people leaving
The shule has lost a lot of mispallelim in the last 2 months because of this
Beyofen HamMiskabel
What happened to Beyofen HamMiskabel – if this principal had been applied as the Rebbe had made clear – then there would be no Yechi sign, and there would be not machlokis
Elections Now
Yeshivah Melbourne needs real leadership, and elected ones – there is no elected Vaad. This is the core issue. ELECTIONS NOW!?! – AD MOSAI
Kalman
As someone new to the scene, I am confused by all this fighting, and cannot understand why they will not remove the sign given it is the cause of such division. If I was in charge, that is what I would do.
Yossi
The writing is on the wall – the sign must come down and the leadership must go!
Kol Hakovad Mr Werdiger
Kol Hakovad Mr Werdiger for making a stand – you should be on the Executive
CMi
What an embarrassment that the Melbourne community is once again taking this to the newspapers. What a terrible shame and embarrassment.
I am also ashamed at Werdiger who compares Telsner to the KGB. Disgusting.
I myself do not say or subscribe to Yechi, but the dissenters here seem to be Korach v’Adosoi.
death camps
“It is sad and ironic that this has happened in our community, many of whose founders lived under an oppressive regime in Soviet Russia where there was a standard method for dealing with dissent,” Werdiger said.
What?????
That’s like comparing the Israeli “occupation” to Hitler’s death camps.
Mr. Werdiger, you are obviously very upset, but to say something like this – and to the newspaper! – you need to get your head checked.
Executive must stand down
The Executive must stand down – they run the institution like czarist Russia – taking the community $ without giving them any rights – change now
Time for change
Time for change – it is clear the olam is not happy – things are heating up downunder. 2 weeks ago there was a contenious speech in shule shabbos that resulted in a lot of tension and people getting up and walking out after the Meshchisits were called shoitas…
cher
why is this going on crownheights.info
shame
to cause more problems of achdus
Eli
If you are going to post old news, then at least post the clarification that has come out since it was released. Another website has a comment from David Werdiger himself attacking the AJN. But then, that (like this comment) doesn’t fit your agenda, so it won’t get posted!
Milhouse
Agreed. This isn’t about yechi or not yechi, but about how decisions are made.
Court Challenge coming
I hear a court challenge to the leadership is being considered
Menachem Shuchat
TORAH IS NOT DEMOCRACY! IT IS ABOUT KABOLLAS OL MALCHUS SHOMAYIM & AS IS WRITEN “MOROH RABBOCH K’MORAH SHOMAYIM” the fear of your Rav should be EQUAL to the fear of heaven !! & AS THE REBBBE QUOTED MANY TIMES THAT “DAAS BAALEI BATIM IS HEPECH DAAS TORAH. THE TORAH (the rabbonim & no one else) IS OUR GUIDE. In matters of halocho The Rebbe sent us to Rabbonim not to gutnicks or any other baalei batim (hepech daas torah). We accept the yoke of HASHEM & His Torah (through our Rabbonim Morei Horoah who are the experts). Waging war against the Rabbonim is waging war against the Torah & it’s author Hashem. Causing machlokes within the the Jewish nation is detrimental as is well explained in Chassidus. We have always been under the leadership of the DICTATOR OF THE WORLD, MELECH MALCHEI HAMLOCHIM HAKODOSH BORUCH HU & HIS TORAH which is made clear to us by our Rabbonim & not by money! Yes,any thing that is contrary to Halocho & ther Rabbonim who are our guide must be censored from any publication that represents any Tora institution!
pure Atzas Hayetzer -dont get sucked in!
this is a clever trap from the “klooginker”
most self respecting Chasidim are too buzy DOING what the Rebbeh wants!
tayereh-breeder (chasidim ein mishpocho) dont get bated by this ploy
TO THOSE PRO i say:
…instead of machlokis Focus on Preparing yourselves and surroundings for Geulah
TO THOSE ANTI i say:
…machlokis does far more harm to PR than any fanatical banner
TO THOSE WHO dont have a lable i say:
…remember that when moshiach comes we’r all gonna wish that we spent these last few moments of Galus “Doing acts of goodness & kindness!!
democracy?
yep.just like crown heights.
then they will have a 2nd election to overturn the first one.
6 elections for the gabois,15 elections for the shul committee,25 elections for the rav.they will then have to go to goysher court to decide who actually owns the shul.
its sure plain & simple
to Menachem Shuchat
The issue is not contrary to halacha – you are naive – there are fundamental issues where with how Yehsivah Melbourbe is being run and the appointment of the executive etc. The recent psak in Crown Heights shows what is happening in Melbourne is contrary to Halacha, and if the matter was taken to bais din, the psak would be clear – there would be elections and forced change. Plain and simple, the institution is being run contrary to halacha.
disenchanted
irespective of whos right and wrong, melbourne (like much of modern day lubavitch)lacks kavod harabonim and kavod hatorah, remove telsner and they’ll shoot down the next. the rov cant even practice as a rov without everyone challenging, threatning, mocking. the problem is he came to melbourne with no rabbinic independance and a complete lack of respect.
r telsner isnt even the rov of melbourne chabad, he is dayan of yeshivah- who hires a rov and says your dead father in law is the moro deasra you are only dayan, whatever that means being there is no beis din.
melbourne is quite content with status quo, the current fight is perfect, the rabbi is perfect- nothing will change and everyone has fantastic shabbos table talk.
there can only be elections if there are platforms, democracy is not a platform- it is an arena for platforms to be aired.
pure Atzas Hayetzer -dont take the BATE
how many tzaros must we see before we get the message!
Borcheinu avinu kulonu k’echad!! DAVKA K’ECHAD (ACHDUS!! =)
aussie
The heated conversation that was mentioned here happened during a Shiur btwn Mincha nad Maariv on Shabbos in the Shule where the speaker started A PERSONAL AND SPITEFUL attack on one of those present and was motzi shem ra berabim about his family. That is why it got heated. The speaker made a public apology after maariv for his despicable behaviour. However he lost ALL his credibility with that stupid outburst.
My gripe is with Rabbi Telsner. He didn’t stand up to this speaker and kick him out of shule. He never stands up for anything. That’s upsetting.
emmanual
i cant stand all this machlokos,just do something positive to bring moshiach.
Go to Ohel and Ask Mechila
These Australians are kein keppeldik.
For lubavitchers to take this to the newspaper? WHOEVER SPOKE THE MEDIA OR AJN ABOUT THIS SHOULD GO TO THE OHEL AND ASK MECHILA FROM THE REBBE.
There is no excuse for taking this to the public.
censorship
The censorship issue is phenominal – it is as thought the meschists are concerned about real debate and refuse to intellectually consider oppossing arguments…not the path of an educated person
Elections now
Elections now – Executive Must Go!
insightful
Wow! Menachem Shuchat. You clearly have no skills in public relations nor any organisational abilities. Even a Rov needs to know how to handle his Kehilla bedarkie noyam and bedarkei sholim. Look at the holy CH where the rabbonim have been feuding amongst themselves causing rifts within the community, and even when there appears to be finally some sort of peaceful compromised solution after the sitting of a group of rabbonim from elswhere, you will still have negative comments appear on the CH info.com.
The issue in Chabad-Lubavitch-Melbourne is, that there are no elections held for any section of the establishment, and the kehilla has a right to demand it.Gone are the old real chassidim Shluchim who were loved and respected to a degree that there was no need for elections at that time.Their personalities where such that they loved the people and the peolple loved them. Today, it is totally different. Anyone in their right mind can see that. People want a din v’cheshbon, after all they are the ones who support the institutions financially.
Menachem Shuchat
re: to Menachem Shuchat
You obviously don’t get the point.Rabbi Telsner IS THE ROV. No executive comittee & no election can change that! Before you write anything about halocho, you should first learn halocho, consult with a Rav MOIREH HOIROAH, then with his consent write his opinion. Chutzpah against the Rov is totally forbidden in halocho. The yechi sign is not forbidden in Shulchan Aruch. As of yet not one person has found any basis in Halocho to forbid it. This is not the point here. The point here is waging war against Rabbonim which is forbidden ACCORDING TO ALL HALOCHIK OPINIONS. Unfortunately, “sinah m’kalkeless ess hashurah”, hate distorts your thinking. To all of the other writers above looking for & engaging in machlokes, get your act together & get rid of your hate! Learn Kuntreis Ahavas Yisroel honestly & seriously without any “buts”, do teshuva! Pesach Sheni is coming very soon. “S’iz nito kain farfalen”.
Lady Down Under
I live in Melbourne and what people have to understand is that at the core of this issue is a general feeling of discontent and frustration with the present community leadership. They are seen largely as parasites who are care nothing for the welfare of the community. They are seen largely as a closed group of self serving dictators who take community funds and show little for it with no accountability and no transparency. They hide behind the memory of Rabbi Groner (OBM)which they use for their own self promotion. Rabbi Telsner, while an ok guy, is not seen as a unifier but a divider who got the job out of pure nepotism and not because the community wanted him there. The general feeling of community members is that their needs and opinions are disregarded and disrespected.
LETS AGREE TO DISAGREE AGREEABLY!! C-MON
I SECOND THE OPINION OF THESE MATURE COMMENTS! THEY ARE SENSIBLE + INTELLIGENT & TO THE POINT!!
======================
…pure Atzas Hayetzer -dont take the BATE wrote:
how many tzaros must we see before we get the message!
Borcheinu avinu kulonu k’echad!! DAVKA K’ECHAD (ACHDUS!! =)
=======================
LET ME JUST ADD THAT THE YH USES VERY HOLLY ARGUMENTS TO JUSTIFY MACHLOKIS & SINAS CHINUM!!
REGARDLESS OF YOUR VIEW POINT, ACHDUS IS WHERE 99% OF NORMAL CHABAD STANDS EVEN IF WE DISAGREE, WE CAN DO SO WITH RESPECT AND AHAVAS YISROEL!
====================================================
ALSO THIS POST IS SPOT ON!
pure Atzas Hayetzer -dont get sucked in! wrote:
this is a clever trap from the “klooginker”
most self respecting Chasidim are too buzy DOING what the Rebbeh wants!
tayereh-breeder (chasidim ein mishpocho) dont get bated by this ploy
TO THOSE PRO i say:
…instead of machlokis Focus on Preparing yourselves and surroundings for Geulah
TO THOSE ANTI i say:
…machlokis does far more harm to PR than any fanatical banner
TO THOSE WHO dont have a lable i say:
…remember that when moshiach comes we’r all gonna wish that we spent these last few moments of Galus “Doing acts of goodness & kindness!!
ASK MECHILA FROM THE REBBEH
Go to Ohel and Ask Mechila wrote:
These (FEW-BUT-NOISY) Australians are klein keppeldik.
For lubavitchers to take this to the newspaper? WHOEVER SPOKE THE MEDIA OR AJN ABOUT THIS SHOULD GO TO THE OHEL AND ASK MECHILA FROM THE REBBE.
There is no excuse for taking this to the public.
Truth be Told
The issue is no so much R’ Telsner, rather the poisioned chalice R’ Telsner has been given.
Telsner unfortunately is not liked by the Excutive, and thus the Executive appear to have engaged in a process to remove him.
The current dissatisfaction with R’ Telsner has its roots in shule survey commissioned by the Executive a couple of months ago, which was skewed to evoked peoples dissatisfaction with R’ Telsner. This is the reality. Any division has its roots in the actions of the Executive.
yossi tevnel
its very hard to explain yechi to lubabs who trim and read newspapers .they are not even ready to listen .there are obviously 2 sides to the debate b/c there are antis and meshichistin so who’s right,which does the Rebbe want ?who is or isn’t ready to listen here?
to Menachem Shuchat
Perhaps you are not aware, but it is Chabad custom not to have any signs or teffilos in shule…this is the reality. it is the jhonny come lately who have sought to chnage this.
As for respect for a Rav, perhpas you need to look at the background to this matter. The relaity is, the Executive planted the seed against Rabbi Teslner by undertaking a public survey of the community’s views of Rabbi Telsener.
The questions in the Executive’s survey were phrased in such a way to portray that there was disquiet about Rabbi Telsner’s tenure and standing…so focus your anger at the real culprits…the Executive
Insightful
We can all now see how you have displayed your ahavas Yisroel, Menachem Shuchat.
But to set the record straight just for you, since you seem to have it all askew.
Rabbi Telsner was inducted as a dayan in the presence of the late Rabbi Groner , obm. If he canproduce a contract that indicates that he was to become the ROV. as you put it, then we can discuss the legitimacy of that contract.Another fact is that there are other Rabbonim within the community that individuals can choose to adopt as their Rov, but that is within a private capacity.
No one is waging war against Rabbonim here. That is pure nonsense.There are objections to the way matters are handled.
Rabbi Telsner is a talmid chochom and is a yoideya sefer par excellence. That does not make him automatically the experienced Rov of a kehilla. Being a respected “Rov” takes practice and patience, and above all the ability to take advice seriously.
I am sure that many are prepared to give him a fair go, but as mentioned, the crux of the matter is that the members of the kehilla want to feel part of it, and that can be achieved only by elections! Not dictatorial leaderships! Like or not!
brains
who is werdiger to decide what should or shouldnt go on in yeshiva?????
the sign has been there for years, who cares if you do or dont agree with it….JUST IGNORE IT. GROW UP!!!!
and an election??!? never will everyone agree, and some ppl always will complain – its their nature. a rov needs to be appointed at once to keep the community alive.
cmA
YAAAY!!!!
Now that we solved Crown Heights politics, let’s talk about Melbourne!!!!!!!!
B-zchus Noshim Tzidkonios
Why don’t you all learn from the women of N’shei Chabad.
Why are they not bothered by and feuding over the Yechi sign.
Live and let live. Stop fighting and just work on bringing moshiach.
It-s time to put an end to Meshichism
It’s really time to put an end to the meshichism that has so sadly been a part of many within the Chabad community, especially in Israel. It is destroying us, and sadly will leave us alienated and spiritually adrift unless the leaders take a stand and kill it now.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LEAVE IT ALONE. WE LOVE RABBI TELSNER AND WERDIGER. CHILL!!!!!
Been there
On examination and reading between the lines it appears the REAL issue is one of control. It appears not “l’shem shmayim” but a control issue. Eventual control of the board then means control of the money and who gets in and who goes out(board then vaad ruchni, teachers, mashpim etc)
Its not really about democracy or Moshiach or signs, its control.
Been there and seen that before…in these pages and elsewhere.
Moshe
There is hand full of trouble makers it’s time you throw them out of the Yeshivah. Rabbi Telsner the Yeshivah Rabbi
ddddddd
why dont u all just stop this rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
get over it
the sign is on the back wall of the shul
face forward and daven and you wont even see the sign.
it all sounds really imature, you are in shul to daven so why do you care what is written on the back wall
if it bothers you so much – dont look at the sign
get over it
the sign is on the back wall of the shul
face forward and daven and you wont even see the sign.
it all sounds really imature, you are in shul to daven so why do you care what is written on the back wall
if it bothers you so much – dont look at the sign
Oh Please!
Menachem Shuchat, have you made those vehement comments to the residents of CH on either sided when there was all feuding was going on against the rabbonim there?
And that statement “ Rabbi Telsner IS THE ROV. No executive committe and no elections can change that” Which planet are you from? Can Rabbi Telsner produce a ksav Rabbonus or even refer to any event where he was inducted as THE ROV? Dayan yes, but rov?
In any case Rabbi Telsner’s status is not the burning issue. The issue is that just like there are elections in the place where Kahn Tzivoh Havaya ess habrochoh, then so it should be in all Lubavitcher kehillois. The downfall of kehillois is when the members are not given the respect they deserve, and when the administration tells everyone to go to h…, we will do what we want.
and another thing Menachem, you are cleary a nogeya bedovor , one way or another.
Chaim
WHAT ABOUT ACHDUS IN THE DAYS OF SEFIRAH???
WE CAN DISAGREE BUT WITH RESPECT!
REMEMBER THE STORY OF TALMIDAY RABBE AKIVAH!
AD MASI WILL WE FIGHT EACH OTHER? WE ARE ALL BROTHERS CHASIDIM OF OUR HOLY REBBE, LETS DO WHAT HE TOUGHT US.
THATS THE WAY TO BRING MOSHIACH.
change
if you guys want i can take over leadership of yeshiva and make some changes around there
old time melbournite
MENACHEM SHUCHAT hit the nail on the head. If the word of a rav is meaningless there is basically nothing left. As for David Werdiger, his poor grandfather who was one of the first Shluchim of the frierdike Rebbe to Australia, and a wonderful chosid, must be turning over in his grave at what his grandson is doing. – not just to the Yeshivah and its reputation, but to Lubavitch as well. The problem with Melbournites (actually, an old problem) is a total lack of hiskashrus. and this was true before Gimmel Tammuz as well. The only reason these people did not speak up before is their fear and maybe respect for Rabbi Groner. Now that he passed away they want to remove everything he stood for! shame on them, and perhaps the Yeshivah is better off without them.
attention -old time melbournite-
dear ‘old time melbournite’ – how dare you make such simplistic and inaccurate generalizations about those in melbourne and their hiskashrus…the fact that you can speak like that puts your own belief in question……that sign on the back of yeshiva is a slogan and does not represent what rabbi groner stood for – in fact, that in itself is another oversimplification…will the real leaders in melbourne please stand up.
crown heights resident
Why don’t the melbourne community do what we do in Crown Heights make your own new shule, mikvah.
Beis Shmuel is a good example. Make a new shule with a Constitution, elect gaboyim president treasurer appoint a rov and all needed positions. Provide Gashmiyus and give the people a say in what needs to be done in the shule.
Take the energy and resources you use for negativity and pump it into positivity.
Jeff
David Werdiger is going to dictate how a Lubavitcher moisad should function?! First concentrate on Hadras Ponim Zokein, Yiras Shomayim, Chassidus daily and being mekushar to the Rebbe in alle inyonim. Does he want elections for Reb Arel’s position as Merkos rep? For all the years Rabbi Groner presided, Nathan Werdiger never got involved. Take a lesson from him how to leave Klei Kodesh up to the mumchim. Mizrachi is up the road if he wishes to destroy the establishment.A public apology to Dayan Telsner is in order for being mevaze him in public.
Milhouse
Jeff, the whole point is that NOBODY has the right to dictate. And that is exactly what is happening. This is not about the sign, it’s about R Telsner’s decision to censor the magazine. What a chutzpah that was. What a slap in the face of the kehillah. What gives him the right to do something like that? What is this but an arrogant קבלו דעתי and if you don’t like it shut up? Suddenly people are not even allowed to disagree with him?!
And Menachem Shochat keeps insisting that he’s the rov. Since when? Who made him a rov? Who made him anything? Were the ballebatim ever consulted on his appointment? What gives him the authority to come to a community and say “I’m your rov and you must listen to me”? Was such a thing ever heard of in Yisroel? Nobody voted for this rov, nobody voted for this executive, nobody has had any say in how things are run for decades, and people are told to just go along with it or get out. Is that the Rebbe’s way? Is that “ofan hamiskabel”? To drive people away from the Rebbe’s mosad? David is 100% right to protest, and more people should protest, before the Yeshivah collapses.
Jeff
Millhouse, if he is the Dayan and Rov with Rabbi Groner’s blessings (al pi shulchan aruch he has every right to appoint his successor even if he isn’t the best candidate – besides the fact Dayan Telsner is a very qualified Rov) he has every right to censor a magazine that is issued from the Yeshiva he represents. I hate to prove you wrong but should The Don and the Executive step down, should Dayan Telsner be relieved of his duties, should Werdiger, Arel, and all the back bench rabble rousers take control, you will witness irreversible chaos and destruction of immense proportions. It’s so much easier to be the Monday morning quarter back. Change is not always for the better.
Let-s farbreng
C’mon guys, let’s not fight. Let’s work on a solution. This is the opportunity for the leadership to show just that, leadership! Lechatchileh aribber, and work positively.Ess iz nishtoh kayn farfallen. Moszhish tolkah nyechochish.
These are plenty to work with.It applies to each and every one of us here and all over.
So, let’s move on with not only tracht goot vett zayn goot, but also tu goot!.Lechaim.
REALITY CHECK!
MOST FARE-MINDED CHABADNIX DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN THESE CHILDISH MACHLOIKIS!!
WHY ARE THE NOISY FEW (BITTER PPL) GIVEN SOOO MUCH ATTENTION!
BY READING THE COMMENTS ITS CLEAR THAT ITS A SMALL GROUP OF BORD-SOULS WITH TOOO MUCH FREE TIME ON HAND!
WHOEVER REALLY CARES FOR THE REBBE’S KAVOD WOULD SPEND THEIR TIME IN A MANNER WHICH IS BEFITTING TO A CHOSSID OF THE REBBEH
(ALSO WOULD NOT KEEP A TV R“L)
BEFORE YOU START MACHLOKIS ”FOR THE REBBEH“ ASK YOURSELF
”AM I FOLLOWING THE VERY BASICS OF CHABAD???!”
SUCH AS…
DAILLY STUDY OF:
1) CHITAS
2) RAMBAM
3) HALACHA
4) INYANEI GEULA UMOSHIACH
5) SICHA YOMIS
6) 30 MIN. PONDERING CHINUCH HABONIM
MIKVAH
T’FILAH WITH MINYAN
DO YOU HAVE A REAL MASHPIA
THILIM SHABBAS MVORCHIM
FRIDAY MIVTZOYIM
ETC ETC
IF YOU WOULD BE BUZY DOING WHAT A CHASSID OUGHT TO DO THAN YOU WOULD NOT BE FARCHAPT IN THESE SILLY SHTUSIM (YES CHABAD NEVER SOUGHT OUT TO WIN POPULARITY… REMEMBER ALL THE OPPOSITION TO MIVTZA TFILIN IN THE 60s…
THOSE WHO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A SIGN, ARE THOSE WHO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CHABAD AND JUST LOOKING FOR THE NEGATIVE, THOSE WHO ARE WISE SOMEHOW CONTINUE PERSUING CHASIDUS AND ARE NOT EASILY TURNED OFF BY RADICAL EMUNA OF CHASIDIM
THE REAL TURN OFF IS GOING PUBLIC WITH SILLY SINAS CHINUM
Disgruntled mispallel
I am no great fan of R Telsner for many reasons but the simple truth is that he is in an unworkable position. He is not the Rov of the shul he is the Dayan (whatever that means). The Yeshivah executive gave him no powers to do anything and he is caught between his pay cheque and doing what is right.
I agree 100% with Werdiger – we are not in communist Russia and have to get out of this mindset of a leadership that dictates to the community. Yossel has the best setup: he dictates but pays all the bills. If we were not asked to give our money to an institution that does not represent us (only a select few) nobody would be pushing for elections.
If elections were held the unnecessary sign would be taken down immediately.
Disgruntled mispallel
Jeff and others are ignoring the real problem by blaming Dovid Werdiger. He has the guts (and money) to say what he feels and is not intimidated by the “rulers” of our community.
Annonymous
I am quite shocked by this tension when really it shouldnt have been an issue in the first place… if rabbi groner set a rule that the sign has to stay up then why is there even an argument that it should be taken down…. you must follow a Rav’s rules even when they are not with us physically.
The Rebbe Rashab, in Hecholtzu
All politics and fights in the name of religion boil down to one sole factor: YESHUS! If everyone would squash their ego, what a different world it would be.
rubish
this is all blown totaly out of preportion its just a sign at the back just dont look its been there for years why make trouble now its just an exuse for a machlokes
Moshe
There is hand full of trouble maker it’s time you throw them out of the Yeshivah. Rabbi Telsner the Yeshivah Rabbi,
and the big trouble maker of the lot is David Werdiger the money is only the father, David if not for the father would be out on the street
Reply (» Disgruntled mispallel wrote:)
Jeff
Disgruntled mispallel, Werdiger has the guts and the money????!!! I think he has chutzpah and he thinks he can throw his weight around because of his grandfather Reb Zalmen ob“m and his father’s money. Never knew David is a huge donor to the Yeshiva who wants to be heard. Irrelevant of his bank account, which is only speculation, every mispallel should be treated with respect. But when the prisoners want to run the asylum, its time to say Ad Kahn. You don’t like it, there are many other minyanim and shuls close by where his deep pockets will be fully welcome.
Just remember, at the end of the day, this is the Rebbe’s proud moisad you are fighting. Not Groner, Telsner or The Don. They are his shluchim ”veshlucho shel odom kemoisoi”.
Not a problem before????
WHY suddenly, did this become an issue?
WHY was it ok and left alone during R Groners time?
Leave it as it was in the first place and has been for years.
For those who don’t like it, don’t look at it!
GROW UP
re: REALITY CHECK!
your 100% rite!!
same mistake twice
yo melbourne listen up … your going to end up like sydney . no leadership , credibility in the wider community in shreds, fights all over the shop, splintered shules and community factions …. this will lead to the same thing in families and personal lives ie no glue to keep it all together
are you ready for that? sydney and feldman made all the mistakes you guys are making now and they paid the price and are still paying. do you want the same.
exec make elections for board listen to your customers ….. be fair … open and transparent … give the people on honest voice …….. then make elections for rov let the people speak then no one can complain if not i fear you will be turning hotham st into flood street
David Werdiger
Please be advised that the letter I wrote to the Rabbi on this issue was leaked to the AJN and quoted without my consent and without any contact from the newspaper before publishing. Sites like this one have just taken the original inflammatory story from the AJN and republished it verbatim without knowing all of the facts. The following letter from me has been published in AJN this week.
“In your article (15/4) about recent happenings at the Yeshivah Centre, you quoted from a letter I wrote. This letter was sent to the rabbi and CC’d to a small number of stakeholders, and was subsequently forwarded to you without my knowledge or consent. The newspaper did not seek to verify the quote with its author, nor was I advised prior to publication that the letter would be made public. Unlike the others quoted in your article who wrote in the newsletter itself, my thoughts on this issue are personal and were clearly expressed in this way to a small group of people.
If I wanted to write an open letter, I would have – there are plenty of channels of public communication available to me for this purpose.
This is shoddy, disappointing and sensationalist journalism on the part of your newspaper.”
As a result of growing dissatisfaction with the shul (and no, I have no objection to the sign), I made a personal decision to leave the main minyan, and expressed this in writing to the Rabbi. Unfortunately other agitators for change chose to circulate my letter, and facilitate the story on the AJN, which was very disrespectful to Rabbi Telsner, and which did not tell the whole story clearly.
Avi
(David Werdiger wrote)
Every body in Melbourne did get a copy of your letter
as Moshe said
Werdiger just leave the Yeshivah like Ray Lewis and don’t come back
Dear David
So David, let me get this straight, you are confirming that Rabbu Telsner confirmed to you that he censored the articles.
If so, are you not also confirming that Rabbi Telsner’s comment to the AJN is false? Not sure what you have gained by writing again to the AJN and here? All you are doing is keeping the issue boiling.
i just looove this quote
…”IF YOU WOULD BE BUZY DOING WHAT A CHASSID OUGHT TO DO THAN YOU WOULD NOT BE FARCHAPT IN THESE SILLY SHTUSIM (YES CHABAD NEVER SOUGHT OUT TO WIN POPULARITY… REMEMBER ALL THE OPPOSITION TO MIVTZA TFILIN IN THE 60s…
THOSE WHO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A SIGN, ARE THOSE WHO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CHABAD AND JUST LOOKING FOR THE NEGATIVE, THOSE WHO ARE WISE SOMEHOW CONTINUE PERSUING CHASIDUS AND ARE NOT EASILY TURNED OFF BY RADICAL EMUNA OF CHASIDIM
THE REAL TURN OFF IS GOING PUBLIC WITH SILLY SINAS CHINUM
04/22/10 – 00:17 –
Disgruntled mispallel
Jeff: Sadly, the mosad is not proud and has not been so for many years.
If you knew Dovid W at all you would know that he is a big ba’al tzedekah for many and varied causes. It is interesting that you quote his yichus in a negative tone – possibly because you have none yourself.
The bottom line is that the sign is only one of the problems at Yeshivah shul. There is no real leadership and the majority is either apathetic or has left.
David Werdiger
(To Dear David): I really don’t want to comment on the substantive issue here. The reason for writing to the AJN and publishing my letter here and on other sites that posted the story is because I was *extremely* annoyed that my letter was forwarded around town and used publicly, and needed to set the record straight on that issue.
Just have a look at some of the comments people have made about this issue, as a result of incomplete information, an inflammatory story, and people in our community happy to forward my letter on to the local press.
i agree 1000% with this
BEFORE YOU START MACHLOKIS ”FOR THE REBBEH“ ASK YOURSELF
”AM I FOLLOWING THE VERY BASICS OF CHABAD???!”
SUCH AS…
DAILLY STUDY OF:
1) CHITAS
2) RAMBAM
3) HALACHA
4) INYANEI GEULA UMOSHIACH
5) SICHA YOMIS
6) 30 MIN. PONDERING CHINUCH HABONIM
MIKVAH
T’FILAH WITH MINYAN
DO YOU HAVE A REAL MASHPIA
THILIM SHABBAS MVORCHIM
FRIDAY MIVTZOYIM
ETC ETC
to i agree 1000% with this wrote:
sounds like you are unemployed – that is a big comittment for a person with a real job that would enable them to pay full school fees at Yeshivah Melbourne…would be happy to oblige, but fear Yeshivah Melbourne would rather my money