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Op-Ed: More Appalling Than Denim

Crown Heights community member Chaya Sara Waldman penned the following open letter to Rabbi Motty Gurary, director of Bnos Menachem, in response to his letter requiring all parents to adhere to strict Tznius guidelines – including no denim, long shaitels or dark nail polish – in order for their children to be considered for the coming school year:

Dear Rabbi Gurary,

Your letter triggered so many responses in me, I don’t know where to begin. By questioning why a man – especially a frum man and a chossid – could ever imagine it is appropriate to speak to a woman about her body? By marveling at the incredible irony of a letter inspired by pursuit of dignity and aidelkeit being a crude public itemization of what women should or shouldn’t wear? By wondering what the role is here for the husband who signs this letter – is it to inspect and approve his wife before she leaves the house? By marveling at how you have turned tznius – a beautiful concept about moderation and refinement in human behavior and dealings, something that’s supposed to translate into cars and homes and the way we make simchos – into something that defines solely the real estate of the skin of women’s bodies? But I decided to respond to the most worrisome concept this letter symbolizes: the prioritization of Women’s Clothing over all other community issues, as your school – and other institutions in Lubavitch – recently have.

To me, more appalling than denim, is the eight-year-old boy who has been bullied since he was four. More obscene than a three-year-old girl’s bare calf, is the shameless conspicuous consumptionism of a bar mitzvah I recently attended of one of our staunch standard-bearers of the BM “Tights Imperative”. More dreadful than red nail polish, is the silent serpent of poverty that poisons the happiness of young families who can barely make ends meet (who attend the extravagant functions of the “role models” of our neighborhood). More offensive than a shaitel that hangs below the shoulder blades, is the gross lashon hara that makes for Shabbos table conversations. More shocking than leggings, is the growing mass of young teenagers quietly throwing away a yiddishkeit they don’t understand and have come to hate. More alarming than a tight skirt is the rampant consumption of alcohol by our children in yeshivos.

I understand that the way that women look in public colors the whole community because of its overt nature. One need look no further than this week’s parsha in Likkutei Sichos (chelek 2), where the Rebbe discusses Kimchis, who merited to see her sons be kohanim gedolim because of her vigilance in covering her hair. But what I don’t understand is how this has become the most prioritized issue, emphasized with a single-mindedness above all other community issues. After all, looking through many of the Rebbe’s other sichos, the recurring, persistent and primary message is ahavas yisroel, helping a fellow Jew, even a rasha, as the Rebbe mentions a few parshiyos earlier in that same chelek. Not only does the new cultural stress on what you refer to as “tznius” not deserve the spotlight, it inevitably directly contradicts that which does – ahavas yisroel – when proponents employ harsh judgment, humiliation and shaming to “offenders”, employing the new catch-all-phrase: “ahavas yisroel doesn’t mean that…”.  “Tznius” is important, but if you really want to “elevate the kedushah in our neighborhood”, let’s take a cue from the elements of yiddishkeit the Rebbe actually focused on. And if you want to elevate the standard of tznius, let’s talk about tznius –the whole concept – not just women’s (and little girls’!) legs.

Aside from your choice of focus, I also have to question your tone and approach. Wouldn’t your position of authority and leadership in this community be better served to healing us as a people, a fragmented community in pain, an individual and another individual and another individual just trying to do his/her best – like you. What has always distinguished Lubavitcher chassidim is our focus on ruling by light, not by darkness, the focus on each, individual yid, as a precious and valuable piece of Hashem to be treated with respect and kindness and care. The Rebbe’s way didn’t seem to be the way of prohibitive takanos like the ones you put forth. Rather, encouraging us all to be “street signs”, placed at the intersections of the paths leading to arei miklat. Our job is to stand at the crossroads as our friends wander through their existential crises and to support them, to guide them with cries of, “miklat, miklat!”, with warmth and support and empathy, and cheer them forward with positivity and love (as the Rebbe discusses in that same chelek 2).

Hatznei leches im Hashm elokecha is a fundamental principle of Jewish life. How has that been subverted to become this obsession about women’s toes and little girls’ legs? If you are looking to highlight one element of yiddishkeit – one ultimate value – to mandate the parents of your school to sign off on, ayn lanu ela divrei ben Amram. Your school represents the Rebbe. Why corrupt his legacy by distorting the meaning of “kedusha” in his shchunah.

Sincerely,

Chaya Sara Waldman

69 Comments

  • 1. Rabbi Gurary is right wrote:

    Ladies and Gentlemen of Crown Heights
    The letter was only for those parents who want their children to be a student of Benos Menachem.If you don’t like his school policies open your own school, go to Bies Rivka, who is holding you back?!

    His school his rules don’t like go somewhere else.

    Reply
  • 3. Anonymous wrote:

    Kol HaKovod Mrs. Waldman!
    You spoke beautifully and even signed your name! Very big if you!

    Reply
  • 4. Anonymous wrote:

    Kol HaKovod Mrs. Waldman!
    Bullseye! You spoke beautifully and even signed your name! Very big of you!

    Reply
  • 5. Ch wrote:

    Sorry Chaya Sara, but you got the whole concept wrong, you just don’t get it… just like the other things are important, this too is important especially for a school! The Rebbe spoke so many times about the importance of tznius. Check this out like you checked the other stuff!

    Reply
  • 6. DeClasse' Intellectual wrote:

    Mrs. Waldman:

    Touche’
    So often what was the message from the Rebbe, has now been since Gimmel Thomas, so often misconstrued to the exact opposite of what the Rebbe meant and advocated!
    #1) If as you stated, Rabbi Gorary’s message was for future students of his institution, why then make it such a public issue in this manner so all the tongues can wag in about it in public??? It should have been in the communications from the school to the parents about what the requirements are for the academic year such a shots and so forth.

    Reply
  • 7. Good points, AND wrote:

    If your daughter announced a new personal mivtza that she is going to work on making all of her brachos more loudly and clearly, would you be happy about that?

    What about if that same daughter has temper outbursts daily, complains about her limudei kodesh homework. and rarely displays hakaras hatov: would you then feel she’s a hypocrite to “only” work on her brachos?

    Whether or not you use the word “hypocrite,” you are making that accusation. While you make good and important points, your letter sounds like you want to throw away the baby with the bathwater!

    Do you really, truly feel it’s WRONG for a mosad in our community to try to influence (for the better) the level of tznius in mothers here — merely because our community has other issues as well? Say it ain’t so, please!

    Reply
  • 8. Not a Chabadnik wrote:

    Although I’m not Chabad I recall hearing the Rebbe z”l speak about Tsniyut issues – for both men and women. The Rebbe spoke very strongly about the issue.
    To say that a Rabbi can not address an issue of tsniyut is absurd.

    Reply
  • 9. A proud parent of a BM child wrote:

    Great letter.
    Problem is, it should have been directed to the Rabonim in the shechuna.
    Your tone in the letter is written with much anger.
    As commented above.
    This letter was written SOLEY for BM schools.

    Reply
  • 11. Nonsense wrote:

    Don’t mix Kasha and Borsht…You are just knocking Rabbi Gurary because you are probably one of the not so tzniusdik people of our community! If all our school would be like this, CH would be a better place!

    Reply
  • 12. Ch Resident wrote:

    What is Ms Waldman’s problem .. this is a private school .. he is the boss … whether right or wrong .. with in agreement or not … bottom his school his rules .. parents have a choice of other schools … his is not the only school in crown heights .. and if the school losses students he will only have to answer to himself .. he is not telling the public at large what to do .. he is not acting as the rabbi of the community.. he is just expressing how he wants his school to be because he can because he is the boss … this not not the place to express ones concern what a private person does on the behalf of his business .. what he is doing is not against Judaism not against civil law and definitely not a criminal act … so don’t patronize his place just like one would not any other business if one does not like something

    Reply
    • 14. Grants wrote:

      His School Governments Grants and funding should someone ask the governments whats the rules ?

  • 15. Well written wrote:

    I agree about the lack of putting emphasis on Ahavas Yisroel. I think maybe there should be a drive for losing the “entitlement attitude” in the Chabad community (not just in CH).
    It’s very nice to promote tsnius in all places, but a school principal cannot dictate what people do in their personal lives. There are many Chabad schools that accept children from non-frum homes to give the children Jewish education. How many would pull their children out with this & put them in cheaper public education?

    Reply
    • 16. nsker wrote:

      It’s very nice to promote tsnius in all places, but a school principal cannot dictate what people do in their personal lives.
      Huh? of course he can.

      Just ask yourself: could the Rebbe dictate what you do in your personal life? can Shulchan Aruch dictate what you do in your personal life? can a school principal dictate what you do in your personal life? Why would you ever consider to send your child to this school if the answer to any of the above is no?

    • 17. ahavas yisroel wrote:

      People choose to follow the shulchan aruch. But how will the principal check? Send spies to see if mom isn’t following the rules while on vacation? Don’t you see why this will not work?

  • 18. Wikipedia wrote:

    Stupid =
    Knowing the truth
    Seeing evidence of the truth

    STILL TRUSTING THE LIE

    Reply
  • 19. Whatever he wants, whatever he wants wrote:

    The excuse “his school he can do whatever he wants..” to what extent can he do whatever he wants?

    gazing at women and girls up and down?

    talking to girls in in office with the door closed with no desk between them?

    all okay?

    what else can he do? Whatever he wants? Really?

    Reply
    • 20. #16 wrote:

      Are you insane??!! These women walk around the neighborhood shoving their undressed bodies into EVERYONE’S faces and you expect men not to see.??? It’s a shame that a man had to come out and spell it out but no one else seems to have the guts. All the waldmans that have a problem should start by cleaning up their own acts and stop chasing their own kids away from yiddishkiet by showing them what hypocrites they are. They send their kids to yeshivas but show an example which is the complete opposite of what he’s being taught.

    • 21. Mendel Kohen wrote:

      He keeps a tape measure to inspect if the skirt is mid-calf.

      Does he feel the shoulders if they are padded when deciding sheitel is past shoulders?

    • 22. ahavas yisroel wrote:

      nobody is getting excited over denim skirts and black nail polish except maybe in Saudi Arabia

  • 23. nsker wrote:

    You achieved to make an impression of trying to delegitimize all discussion of the topic you do not like to hear about.

    The focus on tznius is not new. You will find that both the Rambam and the Shulchan Aruch were obsessed with it, to the extent that they not only itemized the standards but equated violations of tznius to rebellion against “das yehudis”. The Rebbe, to the contrary of your statements, spoke against very specific behaviors. You can hardly blame the school for simply following their directives.
    If the focus seems new, it is only because the level of disregard is unprecedented.

    Frankly, it was embarrassing recently to show our neighbourhood to my non-observant, out of town parents; compared to 25 years ago it looks like a beach resort.

    And just because there are other problems in our community, it does not diminish this one. Why do you think it is obvious that tznius has lower priority, especially if the Rambam thought otherwise and rose it close to the level of the ikrim.

    Lastly, as it has been mentioned by several commenters, the school has a right to demand any standards they choose, even if you truly thought otherwise. It is remarkable that my wife passed on this very school for our daughter in part because of the lax tznius observance by certain staff members. This improvement is too late for us, but good for them if it really extends beyond the paper.

    Reply
  • 24. NS wrote:

    The letter contains valid points but should C”V not diminish the points Rabbi Gurarie expressed and demanded from those attending B”M.

    Rabbi Gurarie is 100% correct in issuing the letter.

    Reply
  • 26. Over fifty years ago in a Bais Yaakov school wrote:

    There was a Rabbi at the door checking skirt lengths. We didn’t like it, but there was no internet hullabaloo. We survived.
    The Bnos Menachem letter should never had been posted. Other sites picked this up and it is a chillul Hashem that any of us are that clueless that we need a shopping list of hilchos tznius. It should be a given that Nshei Chabad are the leaders of all Jewish women dressing in an eidel way al pi Halacha.

    As to Mrs. Waldman, tznius is the very first thing that meets the eye, and affects others, so it’s definitely a priority. We have to be role models in every aspect, but we can’t wait for the pnimiyus to match the chitzonius.
    And if a school has a male principal (as we had exclusively in Bais Yaakov) he’s the one who sets standards and writes the letters. (Of course all in an eidele and halachic manner).

    Reply
  • 27. Carpenter wrote:

    What an empty article devoid of any material substance, clearly motivated by personal anguish about the fact that a male Rabbi is requesting adherence to religious standards from female (mothers and students) who wish to attend his private religious school.

    It’s utter lunacy to accuse him of being disingenuous for not openly tackling every issue that afflicts our community. This man is tackling a grave issue that most people wouldn’t dare to, and he deserves an abundance of gratitude from those of us – the silent majority – who still care about the spiritual well being of our community.

    For the rest of us, there are always other options, including Beis Rivka, Lamp Fighters, Saint Marks Day School, George Wingate School, and PS 91.

    Yeshar Koach Rabbi Gourarie. Keep up the great work.

    Reply
  • 28. GREAT JOB RABBI GURARY wrote:

    To the author, thank you for being brave and venting your personal frustrations
    however,
    Enrolling your children in this school is YOUR choice,

    Rabbi Gurary has the best interest of the children in mind, as a parent I know from experience how important it is to instill the highest level of conduct to children at a young age to build a fortified foundation to assist them in the challenges they will face as teens and adults.

    If your concearns are what the Rebbe would think or advise lets turn it back around…perhaps the Rebbe would want us to follow the directives of our leaders (IE Rabbi Gurary in this case)

    There is a reason for everything and just like the Torah give very little explanation …..its for our own good.

    Please don’t be upset I am certain you are a great mother and role model.

    Reply
  • 29. GEZHE-BelinichI/Klimovitchi wrote:

    “I am of the opinion that the topic of tznius must be set as one of the top priorities of the daily schedule”
    אג”ק חלק כו’, ז’ אדר א’ ה’תש”ל

    ARTICLE ABOVE SAYS:
    “Tznius” is important, but if you really want to “elevate the kedushah in our neighborhood”, let’s take a cue from the elements of yiddishkeit the Rebbe actually focused on

    MRS. WALDMAN, ARE YOU LUBAVICH???DO THE WORDS OF THE REBBE MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU OR ONLY THE ONES YOU “UNDERSTAND”???WAKE UP

    Reply
  • 30. Lets start learning. wrote:

    In response to this comment:

    “By wondering what the role is here for the husband who signs this letter – is it to inspect and approve his wife before she leaves the house? ”

    [When a woman] violates the faith of Moses or the Jewish faith, and similarly, one about whom is issued a scandalous report, her husband is not compelled to divorce her. If he desires [to remain married], he need not divorce her.

    Nevertheless, even when her husband does not divorce her, she is not entitled to a ketubah. [The rationale is that] a ketubah was ordained by our Sages so that a husband should not consider the divorce [of his wife as] a light matter. Our Sages were concerned only with modest Jewish women. This institution was not enacted for women [who act] wantonly. On the contrary, let their husbands think that divorcing them is a light matter.

    Reply
  • 31. A proud Beth Rivka parent wrote:

    A principal is allowed to impose rules for his own students. Especially our Rebbe asked the women to follow zniuus rules like Beis Yaakov. He should be blessed and all schools should demand these rules, based on shulchan aruch. Why you blast the Rabbi? You quote sichos to minimize importance of zniuus? There r other issues to be taken care of, but don’t belittle Rabbi Gurarie’s requirements. He should be blessed.

    Reply
  • 32. shocked! wrote:

    What a letter to post!
    Being upset or disappointed or even angry doesn’t mean that there isn’t an issue with tznius. And this absurd unintelligent comment – that where does a man come to write a letter like that is simply irrelevant. Who was Shulchan Oruch written by? Didn’t the Alte Rebbe, the Rebbe and all Rabbeim in between write sforim and addressed every halachic standpoint relating to women or confronted all the issues and halochos on hand rather than the Rebbetzins?
    GROW UP and let’s call a spade a spade!
    If you have an issue with a tznius guideline, it’s not the rule but rather something that is bothering “you”.

    Reply
  • 33. FINALLY!! wrote:

    Kol Hakavod to Rabbi Gurary!! Finally the Rebbe will be proud of his shchuna!!

    Reply
  • 35. Dear Mrs. Waldman wrote:

    If you have an issue with tznius you may as well go to the graves of the author of Shulchan Oruch, The Alte Rebbe and the Rebbe and take it up with them.
    Why don’t you let them know that you disagree with them… brilliant?
    The Rebbe was a fierce fighter for tznius as is evident in his letters and sichos…
    It would be worth your while to check out some of the Rebbe’s comments posted on the original article.

    Reply
  • 36. Cirel Lipskier wrote:

    BS”D
    Dear All
    Blessings and Greetings
    We all should be Shulchan Oruch people. Our Rebbe IS a shulchan oruch observer as well!
    Not only Law but hashkofo also.
    Let’s try to give pleasure. To Hakodoish Boruch Hu un derbai tzum REBBEN.

    Reply
  • 37. Unban the ban wrote:

    I think the author is saying that the problem with the principal enforcing a standard of tznius is that tznius implies inwardness and when tznius dress codes are enforced it sort of negates the inwardness a woman should feel. Someone can force someone to do something but when the force is taken away, the thing that was enforced, such as dress, might be rebelled against because it wasn’t absorbed b’pnimius. The Rebbe said that everyone can increase in their levels of tznius. Perhaps some women don’t understand why denim or long shaitels might be considered against standards. The principal might be better off insuring everyone, including the parents, has mashpios that they regularly contact and, the school might consider having classes or symposiums for parents

    Reply
  • 38. Mechanenes wrote:

    Kol Hakavod to Rabbi Gurary!
    You had the courage to stand up for highter standards.
    Not everybody is capable to do it.
    Yes there is other things that have to be fix. One at time please. Let`s be together and reinforce our Tznius. It will bring Brochos to all and even more with Achdus.

    Reply
  • 39. The kangeroo wrote:

    It would be cute to see all Crown Heights females from age three on wearing Hijabs and Burqas.

    Reply
  • 40. pseudonym wrote:

    Theres no one in the Tzach list with the name chaya sara waldman.
    Anyone who writes a letter that is so screwed up ought to put her real name to it so we can know to whom to focus the help she needs for her bitterness towards Rabbi Gurary.
    Instead this person should focus on a mitzvah which she feels she can lead to help better the shchuna with!

    Reply
  • 41. Rabbi Dvorkin wrote:

    The Rebbe told Rabbi Dvorkin, a man, to issue a psak with details about what a woman should wear, and instructed nshei newsletter to publicize it repeatedly.

    It appears, Mrs. Waldman, that you are misinformed. Incorrect factual information should be retracted, by you and this website.

    Reply
  • 42. Yakov Kirschenbaum wrote:

    B”H

    1. Good on Mrs. Waldman for signing her name, unlike other anonymous cowards.

    2. Tznius or “the real estate of the skin of women’s bodies” is an actual subject in halachah and should be treated with the proper seriousness.

    3. Where is the evidence that Rabbi Gurary doesn’t care about all the other important issues that Mrs. Waldman said were more important than tznius – ahavas yisroel, loson hora, poverty, off-the-derech teens, etc..?

    4.More generally, tznius and all the other issues are all important. Who decides what’s more important? Even if, theoretically, tznius was less important, “less-important” is still important and deserving of attention.

    5. This was a letter from Rabbi Gurary to the parents/prospective parents of a private school that he runs. It wasn’t a letter to the CH community. It was not all preachy or denigrating.

    6. The denim, leggings, nail-polish and long shaitel rules seem (to me, a non-Rov) to be too strict (although justified because Rabbi Gurary gets to call the shots in his own school).

    Reply
  • 43. accross the board wrote:

    The issue isn’t as much the rules (he can make any rules he wants – it is his school). The issue is how he will enforce them. Will he be strict across the board? Even to wealthy parents who support the school and generally get away with anything? Remember when he honored a father of his school who shaved and wore shorts and had a TV just because he was very wealthy? I wonder if he will finally have the guts to do the right thing and treat all parents and students equally.

    Reply
    • 45. A different Alex wrote:

      We have a Torah, given by G-d, that we follow. If that makes us “fundamentalists,” fine; if you find that “disgusting,” then you need a crash course in what Yiddishkeit is all about.

  • 46. no one special wrote:

    Did The Rebbe stipulate the appropriate length of a shaitel?
    This is not intended to be a provocative question.

    Reply
    • 47. Shaitel length wrote:

      If you look at videos or picture of the Rebbe when he is addressing women or handing out dollars, you probably won’t see any women wearing long shaitels. I am not sure they existed in those days and when they did come on the scene, they were decried because of their extravagant expense.
      The Rebbe did mention at least on one occasion at yechidus to someone that the way their daughter wearing her long hair (not tied back or something) was not proper. Also he mentioned about the length of a married woman’s hair. If it wasn’t proper for a young girl to wear her long hair loose, then it would also apply to a shaitel. It would be proper for a woman who has questions about this to ask her Rav.

  • 48. Andrea Schonberger wrote:

    Chaya Sara I love you and your letter!!! It’s people like you that make the world a better place. We need to do lunch!

    Reply
  • 49. mem wrote:

    it is unfortunare that you printed “kangaroo’s” comments…they do not reflect well on your site.

    Reply
  • 50. It's About Time wrote:

    Kol HaKavod to Rabbi Gurary! Per the GRA, Tznius is the most important Mitzvah for a Jewish woman, as Limud Torah is the most important Mitzvah for a Jewish man. It’s about time that Jewish women were asked to dress like Jewish women are supposed to.

    Reply
  • 52. It's About Time wrote:

    By the way, it IS the responsibility of the the husband and the father to ensure that his wife and daughter(s) are dressed according to the laws of Tznius. The Misora of the Torah has come down through the generations via our Talmidei Chachamim, starting with Moshe Rabbeinu. Are we supposed to ignore Rabbi Gurary’s letter because it was written by a man?

    Reply
  • 53. ahavas yisroel wrote:

    Focus on the actual problems. Yes there are issues with tznius in CH but nobody is getting excited over denim, nail polish or even long sheitels. When you focus on these little side issues, people rebel and then there is nothing.

    Reply
  • 55. Chaim Hershkop wrote:

    Whatever other issue there are (and there are plenty of them), it is up to ME/YOU/I to do something about it.

    STOP waiting for “SOMEONE” or “SOMEBODY” OR “WE” to do it. I don’t know a person named SOMEONE” or “SOMEBODY” OR “WE”, do you? He or she is not coming!!! That SOMEONE is YOU!!!!

    If (for example) you think there is an issue of young kids going off the Derech, then do something, anything (something small) about it!!! Yes YOU!!!!

    Apply this to any and all issues.

    Dismissing one issue (whatever it may be) because there are others far more pressing, is just plain wrong! And this way of thinking has no end!!! It doesn’t come from a good place.

    I have things that concern me, I don’t wait around for “someone”, I do what whatever I can about it. You don’t have to conquer or save the whole world. Do one good deed, help one person (at a time), progress from one to two, to three etc…
    _________________
    Another thing, while I’m already writing….
    The so called 12 week summer “vacation” is a killer. You want to know when our kids start to think of leaving school or yeshiva, it’s during that time. Even the younger kids in Chader take a great hit when it comes to learning (down hill).

    See the Rebbes talks on this issue….
    http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/554142/jewish/12-Tammuz-5745.htm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab1bSKzBHa0
    There are plenty more sichos out there.

    May you all have a healthy, wealthy, inspiring and safe summer. May Hashem protect all of Klal Yisroel wherever you may be!!!

    Reply
  • 56. Ahavas Yisrael wrote:

    Thank you Rabbi Gurary for true ahavas Yisrael and showing that a Jewish woman is the daughter of the king.If a woman dresses in a non-tznius manner, she is not having ahavas Yisrael for her husband or for those who may be attracted to the way she dresses. Being more careful with tznius can only bring brachos to the community.

    Reply
  • 57. cowardly act! wrote:

    “Miss Waldman”

    There is no Chaya Sara Waldman!

    Wow. A new low. Masquerading behind a false name to attack Rabbi Gurary by his name?
    Low. Low. Low

    pathetic that she had to use a pseudonym!!
    Pretending to be so brave and signing her name… what a cowardly act. Makes this letter seem all the more foolish.

    Reply
  • 58. Chabad or not chabad ? wrote:

    Is this our way? If a non drum girl would want to go to gurary’s school should he let her in? No, and yet we have chabad houses and send 12 year old boys to manhattan to do mivtzoin and bring ppl back to yidhishkeit?
    Gurary’s letter is like punching someone who is in the middle of a fight screaming ahavas yisroel.
    If one person goes off the way because of this letter would the rebbe be proud of that ? Why not do things the way the rebbe did, with love.
    Talking about women tzniuse is the easy way out because this community does not need to deal with the real issues and reasons for lack of women tsniuse.
    Shame on you gurary. If you do not know how to edjucation kids shut the school down and get out of the chinuch business.
    You are taking away the incidents away from our kids and making them go of the way.

    Reply
  • 59. Pen name? wrote:

    There seems to be no “Chaya Sara Waldman”! Using a pen name gives you zero credibility! Sorry.

    Reply
  • 60. Baalei tshuva are excluded by these rules wrote:

    I became a baalat tshuva at age 12. By these rules i would be denied admission to this school because my parents didnt follow rabbi gurarys rules. This is the opposite of everything the rebbe stands for. You can impose standards on children in the school but not parents. There are children who are proper but the parents arent but they have to suffer for parents sins when they did tshuva? Why not insist parents keep kosher and shabbat as well? What about gerim?

    Reply
    • 61. Meir wrote:

      And what about if there’s a sarin gas attack, where everyone has to strip off their clothes quickly? And what if… and what if…?

      “Torah al harov tedaber,” the Torah speaks about the typical case. Obviously rules can be bent where there is a pressing need to do so, as in your example, but equally obviously that’s not the case with the overwhelming majority of the students and their mothers.

    • 62. Mendel Kohen wrote:

      BT are exluded by these rules asked:
      “There are children who are proper but the parents arent but they have to suffer for parents sins when they did tshuva?”

      Welcome to the real world.

      A child suffers and Torah deems him/her a mamzer (bastard) due to the sins of his/her parents!

      That is how the real world works!

  • 65. Lawrence wrote:

    Each poster should be absolutely aware that the Rebbe stood for Halocho
    Nothing more nothing less
    Don’t bring the Rebbe into this
    Tzenius was never negotiable
    Not with the Rebbe nor with any of the Rebbeim

    Reply
  • 66. 613 wrote:

    This is ridiculous.
    1- Men and ONLY men are our Rabbi’s. The Shulchan Aruch, The Tur, The Rema, The Chasam Sofer, The Divrei Chaim, The Ben Is Chai Baal Shem Tov, The Baal Hatanya, The Mishna Berura, etc etc etc were all Men and Rabbi’s. All the Halachos of Nidda, Tznius, Yichud, are all Paskened by Rabbanim! So please don’t ever take issue with men making decisions in Halacha regarding Tznius. Obviously if there’s a man who people know is a “phony” and is a faker religiously, then yes he shouldn’t be deciding these Halachos. But one thing is for sure, this a public forum, where so many people are reading this, and it’s a disgrace to see people denigrating someone publicly for making Takanos for his Girls school. Write him a letter PRIVATELY or call him on the phone, but never in public.
    2-Every School has to some dress code, correct?? Obviously you can’t dress in shorts or like your in public school right?? So there must be some level of Tzniyus guidelines that a school has, otherwise it turns into a complete hefkerus.
    3- Doesn’t it make sense that a GIRLS school should be the one to have these guidelines?? A Girl’s school is teaching young Bnos Yisroe-l how to grow up and be Torah True Jews. If the mothers dress like models that are not Tzniyus enough, how do you ever expect the girls to go through the school system without thinking either ” this is bogus, mom dresses like “that” and they expect me to a nerdy tzniyus and aidel??” Or she thinks ” can’t wait till I grow up and dress just mom!” So either way it’s a hypothetical way.
    4-Now I’m not here to decide what the guidelines are. The Yeshiva can decide. They are trying to take active steps to help elevate the Kedusha level in the community.
    There is no question that without tznius we are lacking Kedusha. Look at the Shulchan Aruch and see how Strict they were when it came to Tznius! If you think this is strict, this is nothing compared to the way it used to be.
    5- it’s amazing how Ahavas Yisroe-l gets mixed in here.
    If a student wants to go to the school but her and mother use foul language publicly without shame in front of your children, using 4 letter words in every sentence, would you think that the school has a right to tell them that the can’t speak with vulgar language? Or maybe it’s not “Ahavas Yisroe-l” to do that??? So just let them be?? Of course not!!! So let’s be real.
    5- Yes Everything in Yiddeshkeit is important, Kashrus, Tznius, Shabbos, Proper speech etc. But don’t knock a good thing, when it’s so necessary!!!
    Imagine they started a community started a campaign against speaking Lashon Hora, or being more careful about Kashrus, should we say…Stop! What about all the other wrong things, maybe those are more important than this campaign?? No again! Let’s work together to be better! Every Torah True campaign is a good one!
    Never forget: B’shvil Noshim Tzidkoniyos Nigalu Yisrae-l! So yes it’s top of the list too!

    Reply
  • 67. 613 wrote:

    *Doesn’t it make sense that a GIRLS school should be the one to have these guidelines?? A Girl’s school is teaching young Bnos Yisroe-l how to grow up and be Torah True Jews. If the mothers dress like models that are not Tzniyus enough, how do you ever expect the girls to go through the school system without thinking either ” this is bogus, mom dresses like “that” and they expect me to a nerdy tzniyus and aidel??” Or she thinks ” can’t wait till I grow up and dress just mom!” So either way it’s a Hypocritical way.
    * Typo in the previous post said hypothetical

    Reply
  • 68. #11 wrote:

    shame on you.

    CH would be a better place?

    What a totally warped comment.

    I stopped at #11, this all the usually dribble for people for and people against.

    Great letter from Mrs W.

    TY

    Reply
  • 69. shlomo wrote:

    Kol HAKAVOD
    so sad, but it’s just hitzoniyus after gimel tamuz, it’s just BLA BLA BLA instead real work. it just mahlokes and aggressiveness, look on most comments. most of you attack the author and thereafter wonder why it a not real name.
    and most sadly fact that I read multiple times here, that it really bad school. after graduation girls come to colleges (Oy wey))) and on the first day found that they educational level near the zero comparing to other froom communities
    #58 colhakavod!

    Reply

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