Within moments a number of Shomrim members arrived on scene and began securing the Shul’s perimeter when young kids started exiting the Shul. The kids, 5 boys and 2 girls, all Jewish ages ranging from 15 to 18 were apparently ‘hanging out’ in the Shul’s basement, while claiming to have gone in to ‘use the bathroom’.
Shul‘s Serving New Nighttime Purposes?
On Motzoai Shabbos at around 4:30am Shomrim received a call for a robbery in progress in the ‘Bais Medrash Bais Binyomin’ Shul on Montgomery St between Kingston and Albany. The first Shomrim member to arrive on scene saw movement thru the windows of the Shul and spotted the back door open and heard voices from inside.
Within moments a number of Shomrim members arrived on scene and began securing the Shul’s perimeter when young kids started exiting the Shul. The kids, 5 boys and 2 girls, all Jewish ages ranging from 15 to 18 were apparently ‘hanging out’ in the Shul’s basement, while claiming to have gone in to ‘use the bathroom’.
Shomrim members did not involve police and the youths left. While securing the Shul’s doors, Shomrim members noticed the smell of cigarette smoke and empty beer cans.
A number of points need to be raised; first, all Shul’s should take care and make sure that their entrances are secured properly at night. Second, where is our community coming to and what are we doing to address this?
Have an idea as to how to address this? Constructive Criticism? Please use the comments for that. (leave out the plain negative comments, they will not be published.)
Yisroel, australia
where is our community coming to?
These people hang out anyways, the fact that it is in a shul does not make it worse but rather better.
Let’s say it wasn’t boys and girls but just boys sitting and smoking in the shul….
What’s teh big deal?
In fact I think it’s good that they feel at home in a shul/beis hamedrash.
In fact that is where a 15 year old boy belongs – in a shul/Beis hamedrash.
bais reshoim
that place is anyway not a shul only a hangout place.
Cee
Yisroel, that’s warped. Do you realize that the same kids who would trespass on private property, smoke, drink and mix with boys/girls, also probably are cursing, and discussing grub/vile things in a place as special and holy as a shul?
These kids, especially the younger ones, belong at home in bed, to sleep so they can go to school the next day.
What kind of parents don’t make sure their 15 yr old boy/girl is in a bed in the house and not out partying?
The problem starts at home, we can blame the community all we want, but we need parents to start taking some serious personal responsibility
flabbergasted
Yisroel, austrailia:
i dont know how you can justify any of this. it is totally inappropriate that boys and girls should be hanging out together, especially in a place like a shul, which stands for everything that these kids are ignoring.
what we need to do, is to improve the education of these kids in the schools, what we allow them to do on the streets, and obviously (it goes without saying) in the homes. how can you expect a kid who sees his parents acting in ways that are not accepted in most jewish circles, to act differently from them. and then the parents get upset when they find out, and they start blaming the schools and them mashpi’im. ITS NOT THE MASHPI’IM’s FAULT. ITS YOURS. OURS.
shterna
to yisroel,
yes it’s nice that children feel at home in a shul, but not doing whay they were, and not with a mixed group , and not at 4:300 am.
everyone will agree that there are serious problems but the solutions are not simple at all. would be nice if there was simething positive to say.
to yisroel, australia
true, it would be nice for a 15 year old boy to be in a shul, but NOT at 430AM!! and NOT with GIRLS! there is a right time and a wrong time, it’s like when the yetzer hara tells u to learn torah while you’re supposed to be davening, or vice verca…
sickening
this is what our nieghborhood boils down to, it’s so sad… where did the yeshiva’s and parents go wrong? is there a way to help these kids? are their parents TRULY doing everything they can?? i dont think so.
CHer
ppl in the community should engage these youths when you see them in the street (and I don’t mean by arguing with them)…
Invite them to your home… If you’re a bochur invite them to a farbrengen or set up a chavrusa with them…
Most of them are searching for some TLC (which they don’t seem to get at home)…
PS – I think it would be nice if the rabbonim of our community would simply acknowledge the problem and begin working constructively toward a solution…
observer
To understand the reason for this we have to go to the core of the issue, and I say issue, not problem. It is normal for teenage girls and boys to want to "hang out" together. Obviously, the community does not accept this behavior for numerous reasons. However, there is nothing offered for teens to be pre-occupied with here. The community has to offer programs and extra curricular activities to keep the teens busy and happy doing other things if they do not want girls and boys getting together. We also have to keep in mind that not all the teens in this neighborhood are interested in learning all the time. so offer other things to do (ie sports for boys and girls separately, crafts, karate, boxing, etc.) and keep in mind that teen girls need the physical activity too, not jut teen boys. Schools in this neighborhood offer none of these things so perhaps the community should put them together.
Attn Nebach-s of ch
it’s sad that an 18 year old girl from montreal has to come to ch and make a mockery of it. break into a shul, hang out with 15 year old boys, smoke and drink, where the hell are the parents????!! E.S. and M.L. and to all the other kids there…. think about what you’re doing to yourself!!! keep this up and you’ll either end up dead from gd knows what in a few years or intellectually dead …. it’s really not worth it, stop blaming the world for you’re problems and realize you can have a future, you can do something with yourself! B\hanging around the streets all night is beyond my comprehension.
trying
is it possible just to let kids know that if the shul will be used for boy-girl activities, then when they are caught, their names will be given to the parents and the schools for them to deal with?
A better Tommorow
What a display of Ani Ledodi Vidodei Li. Now we just have to convert it to Kedusha.
(I would certainly advocate that in the future, articles as these need not be posted. Why encourage slanderous talk? In a weeks time, 770 will be buzzing with names of who done it and how bad bad bad these people really are. I for one say, I could have lived well and davened fine this Rosh Hashana without this knowledge. But, that is neither here nor there).
In reality, this kind of behavior has been a problem forever. This kind of incident is not suprising at all. In a shul? They could have used better judgement, but then again, better judement would have had them home asleep, like all aspiring individuals for a better tommorrow.
The mispallelim of Bais Shmuel have a unique opportunity. Clearly these individuals were attracted to the shul. As role models, the congregants of Bais Shmuel can undoubtebly turn their focus to more holy happenings in the shul, and be a living example of true chasidishe behaviors.
Much luck to all and a good Chodesh Elul!
Shliach in USA
Dear Webby,
I am sure that you are aware that there is nothing new about this "phenomenon" of boys and girls hanging out with each other. This human disease has been reported since the earliest days on man on earth, when Adam and Eve joined each other in holy matrimony. It is perfectly natural as far as science is concerned.
These children may not fit in to the mold that our yeshiva system has created and therefore do "bad" things like hanging out with girls. They are then told that there is something terribly wrong with them for wanting to hang out with girls. This is absolutely not true. It is a healthy and normal feeling that boys have. Nobody takes the time to talk to them about it G-d Forbid, because it is "innapropriate" to discuss intimacy in a way that a teen will feel comfortable to beging dealing with it. Rather, we make him feel like a moral leper, which he is not. This exacerbates the problem and helps to lower his self esteem.
His parents, rather than develop new strategies to deal with children that don’t fit the general description of a teenage bochur, choose to become punitive and angry at their sons behavior. Going to a psychologist is out of the question, as people might find out that they are fallible humans that cannot cope completely on their own and need outside help. Of course they might consider sending the child, but the child is only half the problem. Parents like to forget very quickly that they are partially responsible for their childs emotional development. Quite often, the parents need to change the way they behave in order to have a positive effect on their child.
We need to remember that these are teenagers who cannot be held entirely responsible for their behavior. To a large part yes, but their parents still need to take a role in their teenagers emotional and moral development. Teenagers still need their parents help.
MOM OF TEENS AND THEN SOME
YISROEL, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE. MOST TEENS THESE DAYS FEEL THAT MOTZEI SHABBOS YOU MUST GO OUT. SO IF THERE WERE A PLACE FOR THEM TO GO TO SUCH AS YAM WHERE THEY COULD SPEND THE NIGHT WATCHING VIDEOS, PLAYING GAMES THAT APPEALS TO THEM SUCH AS POOL, OR MINIATURE GOLF. AND INCLUDE A MELAVE MALKE OF SORTS AND PERHAPS A RAP SESSION WHERE THEY CAN LET OFF STEAM AND SAY WHAT THEY WANT (OR HAND IN NOTES WITH THEIR COMMENTS TO BE DISCUSSED. ETC. ETC.
sruli
whoever posted that last comment is an ignoramous. cut the crap. yo have alot of maturing to do.
Be there
Maybe more activities need to be planned at the shul torah challenges girls vs boys.
Better they associate with jewish members of the opposite sex than non jewish in a place that they won’t have any accountability.
Nemo
Yisroel, making shuls into a hangout destroys the dignity of a Shul.
If it was just guys it might be one thing… but to this extent?!?!
sam a
boruch hashem they where in a shul mabey they where learning torah
concerned
Yisroel, australie, i dont understand your comment at all. what are you trying to say? Even if it was just a group of boys, its not okay to hang out and smoke in a shul at any time, let alone at 4 in the morning. The fact that they’re using the shul for such a purpose shows you exactly what they think about it-that they dont value it for the sacred place it should be. If you want a safe place for them to hang out it (which is not dealing with the issue at all), then make a lounge of some sorts.
Dont forget-this was 4 o’clock in the morning. Not to judge anyone, but where were their parents? Didnt they notice what was going on?
My suggestion is that if this happens again (which i hope note), maybe the shomrim members could sit down and have a little chat with these kids. I’m not talking about on a mashpia level-i’m talking about on a safety level. They should explain to these kids about the dangers invovled in wandering around in 4 in the morning. In addition, someone should be told about this. Either the parents, or an adult who cares about these kids-someone should know.
All i can say is that we’re in the generation right before Moshiach-we are dealing with nisyonos that werent present in previous generations. Hashem should grant us the wisdom to know what to do and have the guts to do it.
To Yisroel:
Was this a joke or something? Do you think that it is BETTER that in addition to not being involved actively in "avoidas Hashem", they should also feel comfortable being "machalel" that which is holy? Would you suggest (and so it follows acc. to your logic) that they do the same in the Rebbe’s room? or how about the "Koidesh Hakodoshim"?
There is a concept called "Kedushas Beis Haknesses" which fills 5 simonim in Shulchon Aruch (150-154) and it is "Minhag Chabad" although we are missing those simonim in the A"R Shu"A.
Being so, it is obviously ludicrous to advocate such behavior.
All the above is without dealing "b’gufoi shel inyon" at to what we should do to help situation of the youth, which I will leave for another time.
Feivel
Ummm maybe if they were learning then the Beis Midrash would have been an okay place for them to have been…
but to just hang out in a Beis Midrash esp. while smoking and drinking and probly not doing anything yiddushkeit related is not appropriate. If you arent allowed to make a shortcut through a Shul then certainly it shouldnt be used for idle inappropriate hanging out.
As far as constructive criticism…
These kids parents need to keep better track of them…
Its not a deep problem, the problem is that parents dont keep track of their kids as well as they should.
any
What is missing here? Purpose. These children have lost purpose. This shul has lost purpose. Crown Heights has lost purpose.
The Construct would then be, what should the purpose be? And how to regain it? The purpose should obviously be, to bring Moshiach, as the Rebbe wanted. To be Chasidim, because that will bring Moshiach. To learn properly and sleep properly, because that will bring Moshiach. To influence other Yidden, because that will bring Moshiach. Boro Park etc. have a purpose, the perpetuation of their own Yiddishkeit, albeit a lower purpose. Their survival rate is better, if not great. What does it help that the Rebbe gave us a higher purpose, if we don’t take it to heart?
As for how to regain it, I am clueless.
Mendy
This behavior is nothing but a symptom–a symptom of children being angry at parents/teachers/community for being full of it. In other words, "You do what _you_ want? [As opposed to what Judaism/Halachah/Chabad wants] We’ll do the same." That’s the cause.
We need to be real (and that includes me). Treat the cause and the symptom goes away. It’s that simple. Back to the books, folks!
BrookAve
Here is the Seder:
11:00 pm to 11:30 am – The Holy Kingston Avenue ice cream shop
11:30 am to 3:00 am – Choice of Park Slope, movie, bowling, pool hall, bar or combination thereof
3:00 am to 4:29 am – party harty in cozy Shul basement
waiting for sunlight to say Yud, Yud Aleph and Yud Beis, but that isn’t going to happen because…
4:30 am – Get busted, our Holy children resolve to find another place to hang for the following night.
Hey what about that new place on Empire ????
Anonymous
As the initial responding Shomrim member I can tell you that the way I presented this article gives these ‘kids’ a serious break.
Here’s a little more to this story.
When we began dispersing these youngsters from the Shul a few of them kept on going on how ‘they were going to kill us’ and/or ‘beat us’ referring to Shomrim members. The most interesting part was that while we were securing the Shul and locking all its doors, these 3 kids came back with ‘their friends’ (another 2 kids their age).
The most disturbing statement said that night was by one of these 15 year olds he said [referring to the Shomrim members] “I am 15, I don’t have a care in the world, I will do whatever I want”. Each and every one of these kids has someone else to blame for their behavior other then themselves. They will say the system failed them, when it is them who failed the system.
See, when a shoe doesn’t fit, you try on another one. B”H a shoe store has a veriety so you have option in every size. Take that and apply it to the real world, there are numerous yeshivas out there, there is Aliya, there are schools that implement craft and trade training all the while working.
Now to violate a Shul in this manner, doesn’t say ‘thank g-d they went to hang out in a Shul’ it shows that these kids have no respect for anything, it also shows that they have nowhere better to be, if any single one of them had a car with a drivers license (or without) they would have been someplace else. So cut that bull.
Each one of these kids was thrown out of school for other reasons, varying from skipping studies to being active on sites like MySpace and the likes.
And my personal last gripe with what had happened was that the 18 year old girl, who was hanging out with these boys ‘Shlo Hiviu Shtai Saarot’ is not even from crown heights. Don’t we have enough of our own troubled youth here on their own? Do we need to import them from over the border?
My personal feelings as to this whole boys girls, girls boys mixing are one thing, but that is usually in the case were the boys and girls are mature enough to be able to recognize their own drive, but excuse me, 15 years old??
And hats off to BrookAve, your comment had finally been placed in its proper place. Email me we need to talk, webby@crownheights.info
GotCaught
to A better Tommorow, whats bais shmuel got to do with it?
to brook ave
is this the new schedule for the school year
waiting for some
ppl use ur seichel…the kids who r doing these kinda things rnt listening to their parents!!! its not the parents to blame. y are there so many shluchim all over the world making people who arent frum, frum when the need is in the "frum" community. why is there no one around for us??? what happened to the saying "charity starts at home" these kids are looking for attention why dont u give them some?
DOWNWARD SPIRAL IN CROWN HEIGHTS
To.. CHer wrote:
You wrote……
ppl in the community should engage these youths when you see them in the street (and I don’t mean by arguing with them)…
Invite them to your home… If you’re a bochur invite them to a farbrengen or set up a chavrusa with them…
Most of them are searching for some TLC (which they don’t seem to get at home)…
PS – I think it would be nice if the rabbonim of our community would simply acknowledge the problem and begin working constructively toward a solution…
_____________________________________________
PARENTS STOP FINDING FAULTS IN THE SYSTEM AND THE LEADERSHIP OF OUR COMMUNITY. LOOK IN A MIRROR AND REALIZE THAT YOU ARE THE LEADERSHIP AND SYSTEM THAT HAS TO TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY OF THE KIDS YOU CREATED. DONT BLAME ANYONE OUT THERE BUT YOURSELF THAT YOUR KID WAS DRUNK AND ASSULTED WHILE BUYING DRUGS OR IN SHUL AT 4:30 IN THE MORNING LEARNING HANDS ON TEHARAS HAMISHPACHA.
My 2 cents
As is plainly seen from all the previous comments there is plenty of blame to spread around. Mendy is right in his comment, this is a symptom.
The present situation with these teens is not simple, and there is no quick fix. I hope these teens have at least one parent they can relate to and that that parent gives them love and support while trying to gently steer them in the right direction. These teens are wounded souls who are lashing out in their pain. They truly believe that the system and the community wronged them, and in some cases they are probably right.
Our main concern now should be to make sure that the younger kids in our community do not increase the numbers of these unfortunate youth. We are all so involved in our shlichus activities that we forget that our own need help too. A father or mother who is never there because they are too busy in shlichus or business is instrumental in the development of these unsatisfied kids.
A Vaad and a Beis Din that constantly bicker in public is not the best example for our youth, and cannot engender respect in anyone.
Only when we show our kids by example, the proper way, will our kids listen more to us than to other influences.
Only when our kids see that we truly mean their wellbeing, and are not just giving lip service, then they will stay on the straight path.
Start having a relationship with your children when they are small. Mothers, include them in supper preparation, talk and “socialize” with them, fathers, learn with your children, even if they are just in first or second grade, give them your time to review some of the day’s learning, then when they are teens, they will not be in shul smoking but learning.
Our schools also have their portion of blame for the way these kids are. If one does not fit the mold, kick him\her out, this seems to have become a handy solution. Some kids are bored in yeshiva because the level of learning is too low, some because the level is too high. These are human beings not cookie cutter gingerbread kids, who are all the same. Why can’t our schools try to address the individualities of our children? And yes, it is true it is not that simple……
Let us use what happened here as a lesson for the future and as far as the present is concerned, it is a hard road these teens and their parents will have to travel, and there are no speedy solutions that a comment can give.
rivka
Putting aside for a moment the kids, location, atmosphere and time involved in this fiasco, the responsibility lies with the parents, or lack of parents. Kindly do not absolve them of their obligations and responsibilities as parents. How or why they ignore the behavior of their children is beyond comprehension. They must be involved and held accountable or run the risk of further degradation, G-d forbid.
Sara
These kids were probably the same ones who were hanging out on the Lubavitcher Yeshiva playground one Motzei Shabbos until Shomrim chased them away.
We need to educate the girls that the boys are not really there for them, but for whatever they can get…
The girls are the ones to suffer with the bad reps…
The boys just usually move on with their lives, but the stigma sticks to the girls. That’s the reality!
We DO need structured activities for the teens who feel the need to ‘hang out’.
Isn’t the JCM supposed to be offering community projects? (or is that only for the younger ones?)
Anyway, these kids who’ve had it with school and ‘Yiddishkeit’ need some direction- maybe job training so at least they’ll earn good money?…
Mottel
Been in 770 lately? All the guys – ok not mixing with girls – but smoking and drinking and hanging out and fighting… where do the kids learn it from, sorry?????
ISAAC
THANKS TO THE SHLIACH. IT SO FUNNY THAT ALL CROWNHEIGHTERS WANT TO GO ON SHLICHUS TO ALL PARTS OF THE WORLD AND HELP THE LOST JEWISH NESHAMEAS ANS YET NO ONE HAS A CLUE HOW TO HELP THE LOST ONES IN CH. SURELY THE BASIS FOR SHLICHUS IS AS OUR FOUNDING FATHE THE BAAL SHEM TOV TAUGHT, "AHAVAS YISROEL." THIS IS WHY BAIS LEVI YITZCHOK IS POPULAR. IT IS ACCEPTING. WHERE IS THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IS NEEDED TO BRING LOST SOULS BACK INTO THE FOLD. IT SEEMS TO BE COVERED UP WITH THE SHMUTZ OF EVERYONE’S PERSON CONCERNS
CV
to "2 cents": thanx for the essay.
Eli
I think you all took the first comment out of context. He’s not saying that the situation is good, but that it’s better than it could be. Calm down.
WE WANT MOSHIACH NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give me a break. When their are young, parents only care about their children being popular with the kids in school. Everyone is worried about looking good for everyone else in the community they forget about their kids. Not Everybody!!!! People I talk to say, “We have problems in Crown Heights?” Lets get real. You know what, stop buying your kids the latest styles so they can attract the opposite gender. Let’s pay attention to our kids so we can make sure their are following the right path. Stop trying to keep up with the Jone’s their not JEWISH!
agreed
i totally agree with mottel
lol!
yeha no matter what anyone does boys and girls will always meet! its so sad though that she was 18 isent that a little illegal?
Dovi
what do you expect after the only youth center in Crown heights was closed down by our very own community council, shame on us all!
Chossid
This is worse then Cali.
owner of basement
Why is everyone sounding so shocked about this incident? you all sound as if this is one of the worst stories that have hit the crown heights teen scene. Wake up Webby, You pulled these kids out of a local crown heights facility not from a club or PRIVATE BASEMENT where most of the action happens these days.
eli
There were mixed boy and girl teenagers outside my house on Montgomery Street motsei shabbos talking all night long. I didn’t even think they were Jewish until the sun came up just before 7AM and I saw who they were.
anonymous
wow this whole story is really sad but what about looking at youre own self before criticizing and commenting on everyone else seriously there should be a class/shiur on working on our tznius and the way we speak and act ,so that at least our children will see that were trying to improve ourselves and that we really care about the im pression they get from their own mothers
BOY
To CHer
What is TLC
eh
The reason that these youths are like this is because they are not smart, they failed every test in school & when they finished elementary, they went to a bad school.
It is the school’s problem, if a kid isn’t smart don’t fail him look how much effort he put in.
fair and balanced
Webby
Not to sound harsh maybe the next time you should have the these young adults become guests of the NYPD for a while. The problem is far worse than people think. young married couples holding hands on friday night walks. The way people are dressing or not dressing( both woman and men) 1 Word RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!! not respect for these people but respect for CH for the most of us who want to raise our Kids in a frum community. what people do behind closed doors is their business . Once you take your behavior outside it becomes every ones business. The is no place for this kind of behavior. We have to start drawing the line!
Webby don’t wait to be attacked by one of these kids.
to EH
maybe more people should think like you….thats exactly how we feel…
its anonymous
haha this is funny… i thought california is bad!
Yahooo!
How come you did not publish any pictures?
i luv ch
haha i love crownheight so much u can get away with everything
Pinchos
Before we pounce on the kids for invading the Shul let us first address the parental generation.
It has become common place for many males to cut their beards or trim them up, the wearing of jeans is now common place.Many women are seen in public without socking, short skirts and their hair showing out of flimsy kercheifs…… in which other Chassidic community does this happen………….we need to take stock of our selves and return to the Chassidishe Weg.
Now to the teens….they are living in a world of mixed messages from within the community machlokes, division, lack of unity and unfortunately Rabbinic leadership without the teeth to tackle the basic problems of the community
The Rebbe call on each individual to find a Mashpiah, this unfortunately in many cases fell on deaf ears.
It is never too late.
Our children are not lost, they are temporarily of the path, if we look for ways to bring them " home" they will respond positively.
Beis Binyomin is a Shul with many good people and there are within their ranks many well-to-do member, maybe they should take on a Mivzah to reach out to the youth (and their friends) who by Divine Providence "partied" in their basement
Afraid of raising kids here in CH!
Yes I agree, the problems start at the top! If the beis din and vaad are constantly fighting, how in the world do you expect anyone to get along?
Yes, parents play an important role, but parents need guidence too and they sure aint getting it from this vaad or beis din!!
We do need activities to keep our kids off the streets!
yos the bus
u know i am not from crown heights and i used to think it was a chassidush place
well mabey not
what nerve do there kids have smoking and drinking aspeasily in a shul
what a chutzpah
i’m not so called "chassidish" but i dont hang out with girls b/c i was taught that there is a place and time to date and its not when u r 15
what is this a hight school prom? mind as well put on dresses and a texcito and dance in the middle of kingstone
what has come to the younger generation of chabadniks
Rachaim
The only voice of reason is our dear shliach.
I was born and raised in CH, and I strongly believe the school system here is a failure.
At one point I was one of these kids that so many of you look down upon.
Teenage years can be very confusing, many need guidance and positive role-models somebody they can relate to.
Vilifying these young souls will only lead to resentment, so instead of spewing negativity look at each one of these chidren like the diamonds they are and lend your support, courage and most of all love.
meeeee
to annonymous and chossid and i luv ch…..u guys r soo right…it is worse then cali….and everyone thinks cali is sooo bad excuse me no one does that here in cali and i wood know cuz im from there….aslo no on in cali will ever smoke or drive on SHABBOS…..omg how could anyone do that….also to i luv ch ur soo right u could get away with everything in ch….its like the hang out place not only in a shul but in aptments building and subways and anything u could think and no on ever gets cought….and tell lighten everyone brains CALI IS NOT A BAD PLACE AT ALL…..jst b/c we have famous ppl n all that stuff doesnt mean its a bad place ch is 10 times worse then cali!!!!
Ani Lo Tachat Omed
What Crown Heights really needs is a psychologist to come and evaluate what is happening there. Cause and effect, everything has to do with everything. Parents need to be stricter on their kids or at least know what they are doing and not always trust their children’s word. While teachers are not at fault here, they need to motivate their students so they WANT to be frum. These kids don’t know what they want, they want what they think they are missing. They will return eventually, but that’s not good enough. It’s time for Shluchim to be sent TO Crown Heights – someone that the people will pay attention to.
That’s all I have to say for now, if I think of more I will torture you all with it later… ;-)
shliach from afar
This is what happens when for years a zhlob like Chanina can be elected to serve as leader of the community!
WE WANT MOSHIACH NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All is not lost in Crown Heights. I just came from a small community out of state. Someone asked me, do I like Crown Heights. I said, "I live in Crown Heights for my kids". The learning my children have can not compare anywhere. We just have to clean it up. Parents care where your children are, get involved in their lives. Who cares if the girls weren’t from here. It doesn’t make it okay for the boys. We need to focus on the good, 770, the REBBE, etc. There are plenty of good kids in Crown Heights. People if your kids are out of control there is so many organizations that can help. Boro Park has more resources.
S. Katz
I dont live in CH. I do admire Chabad very much.
It really hurts me to hear people from other Chasidishe communities discussing the lack of tznius in CH. Chabad is definitely #1 when it comes to Kiruv outside of the Chasidishe world.
Their lack of tznius causes a Chillul Hashem in the frum world. Chabad is supposed to be a beacon of light to the frum community too.
You know what they say about first impressions.
Chasidim of the Rebbe should dress like the royalty that they are.
concerned-ahavas yisroel-er
how about making "for women only" and "for men only" coffee-tea places?
In Europe they say that the Yidden had so much to do….Jewish plays, theatre, and more. we need more activities for the teens. Programs are needed. More input is needed to find creative and viable projects for the teens. The teens are our best resources! They have the idealism, energy and they can do more than you can imagine. But we the adults have to have more Ahavas Yisroel, we have to IMPLEMENT Ahavas Yisroel, and we have to look inside ourselves, and work on our own selves. More emunoh, more of living by the aytzas of the Rebbe. No time to be in Atzilus. First we have to know how to live HERE….how to love each other and treat each other with dignity, how to talk to the teenagers and love them and respect them.
Lets hear more about how to do that……
get help
the rebbe rote, that if you find fault in some one else, its because you have it in you…..so parents stop blaming the schools!!!!try to find it in your self…..maybe something will get fixed in ch
just a though
even what the kids did wasn’t right. they are not to be talk about like this for it will not help them or any one else.
one thing I saw from all the people I pass is that a lot of time they act in away that is that is not accepted it is because try to express them self for they anger at someone or something that happen and was never given the right TLC to help them. So who is to blame it is ever one even me. For it say each Jew has to take care of each other. this is sad for me to say but I think around 50% of CH kid are at risk or already on the wrong path.
I also think with the school they to quick to throw out a kid rather then taking about the problem even more so with boys.
I think it is time for each of us to do are part for a better tomorrow rather then taking action speak better then word.
In sem I was doing project on chinuch of child and one of the rebbe letter say best way to influence your child is throw their friend and you start giving your child a good chinuch from the first day.
to I LOVE CH
i hate ch just cuz of all the talkers who talk about you….even if they dont know who you are….it pisses me off….maybe the youngsters who were in the shul hanging out are doing it after the only thing going on in their lives were people talking about them even if the people talking about them had nothing to do with their screwed up life!!!!!
A new life
"Parents: take your job seriously. Children are the most precious gift Hashem has given you — a new life, as unmarked as fresh snow, and you have been blessed with the opportunity to nurture, protect, and teach your child, so that the child becomes a productive and good human being."
— The Rebbe
concerned
I want to thank Pinchas and Shliach for their comments. I really do pray that we introspect….think about these comments….look for the meaning, and try to adjust ourselves from INSIDE/within and maybe change can come from that. We need to internalize the truthful thoughts and maybe things can improve from our adding positive actions from suggestions in these postings.
TRUTH NOW, MOSHIACH NOW!
Hayom Yom...
This is the actual time of the "footsteps of Mashiach." It is therefore imperative for every Jew to seek his fellow’s welfare – whether old or young – to inspire the other to Teshuva, so that he will not fall out – G-d forbid – of the community of Israel who will shortly be privileged, with Hashem’s help, to experience complete redemption.
HayomYom…
Evil
Why are you so surprised to find evil and corruption running amok everywhere you look? This world is the coarsest and harshest of all worlds, the ultimate concealment. Almost all of it is darkness and emptiness. Only a tiny spark of good is buried deep within to keep it alive.
You could spend your lifetime dwelling on the outrages and scandals and things that are not right–or you could take a moment to search for that spark. You could find it, grasp it, and fan its flame. From within its aura, you will see the darkness shining brighter than the heavens. In that moment of light, the night will never have been.
Fueled by your love, the light will swallow all that surrounds it.
From the wisdom of the Lubavitcher Rebbe
purification
Whoever has faith in individual Divine Providence knows that "Man’s steps are established by Hashem," that this particular Neshoma must purify and improve something specific in a particular place. For centuries, or even since the world’s creation, that which needs purification or improvement waits for this Neshoma to come and purify or improve it. The Neshoma too, has been waiting – ever since it came into being – for its time to descend, so that it can discharge the tasks of purification and improvement assigned to it.
Hayom Yom…
{Maybe thats what they were doing in the Shul :) }
louise
WHY DONT ALL OF YOU JUST LISTEN TO YOURSELVES. You all point fingers at other people. Maybe you should actully think of what YOU can do, and not somebody else. How are we supposed to bring Moshiach if there is no Ahava Yisroel.
mendel c,h
i think what we need is to have someone who is a person that we all look up to as one, i remember in my teen years runing to farbrengen evrey shabbos, there was always somthing going on, there is missing this kind of thing for teens growing up today, we need a person who evreyone will accept that kids should see and heare a live person , in evrey chasise area there is somone the kids see and hear, there is nothing hear like that, the way there is in any city are state that there is a chabad sliach,
informed
And if it was the Rebbe who was walking past the shul and not shomrim? Yechi or no Yechi What the HECK HAPPENED TO US? We used to be the shining example of the frum community. And it’s not their fault in its entirety. These boys and girls are (firstly) parent’s responsability and (secondly) the community’s responsability.
Who’s to say drugs aren’t being used. And if it is, who’s to say that the possibility of rat poisen in the drugs are far away from happening? Its happened in other communities.
BTW, let’s not totally think that that narc. police aren’t on to our communitites as well. I happened to be well informed that our community, as well as many other frum communities in New York are under a giant microscope as i type these words into this box.
CMON PPL!
we must do better
There is a commercial on the radio from David Lerner Associates, in one of his lines he says: “I’m sick and tired of people who say that they are successful (in the stock market) because there friends are loosing much more then they are”.
That really struck me, how many times in my own life have I said “I could have done worse” or “at least I’m not as bad as the other guy”.
To many times, I read and hear people saying that our problems are not so bad, because either it’s just as bad somewhere else or even worse.
Some one or a situation being as bad (or worse) does not make our situation any better.
We most Stop looking at other peoples faults and feel all good about our self, when in fact we are not moving anywhere.
We most do all that we can to be better people, so that maybe someone else will look at use and say “I want what he’s having” “I want to invest in what he’s investing”
Triumph of evil
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
stop talking about it
they’re going to do it anyway so you guys sitting here and talking about it aren’t going to help anything go out and do something instead of sitting here like yentas by the way whoever posted the initials of the teens involved it’s really none of anyones business and whoever is in charge here should really take it off!!!
moshiach now!!!!!!!
Chassideshe Weg
To Pinchas
Here’s how to go back to the Chassidishe Weg:
1. Take away the internet…take down shmais, take down this site, get ppl off blogs, off myspace, off the internet. Shut it down.
2. Get rid of the TV’s, movies, dvd’s….
3. Take away your kid’s cell phone and credit card.
4. Don’t let your kid leave CH without you…
5. Shop for clothes only in Crown Heights.
I could go on….
You find 5 parents in Crown Heights who are willing to do that…Not the ones who already do that,
the ones who let their kids run around now.
These parents live in the real world too. They also want TV and movies and internet. What we see now are their kids.
Given the right atmosphere, most of these kids would not be where they are today.
flabergasted
to i luv ch:
"get away with everything there"..you dont live in any hick-town. you live in such a holy place!
Anonymous
I think there’s 2 ppl out of all this that are actually doing the right thing. 1) Those parents who focus on the TLC and therefore don’t force their children to search elsewhere for it and 2) Moshe Feiglin who started ALIYA in crown heights to solve the second phase of this problem, after the kids to leave the house to search for TLC, he offers it to them. Yasher Koach, keep it up.
mmmmmm
People, please remember:
These teens (and the rest of the spectrum of dissafected people in CH) each are individuals and have their own life-stories and issues.
It is not possible to say that the blame for "this kind of thing" always lies with the schools or the parents or the neighbors. Each case is different.
It is very harsh to tell a parent who cries themselves to sleep at night trying to figure out how to reach THIS one of their children that they must be rotten parents.
Remember, Avrohom Ovinu had a son Yishmoel. and Yitzchok Ovinu had a son Esav.
meir
so the parents of 15 yr old kids are responsible for their kids. bring the parents and their kids to bais din and enforce the din torah given out.
the community is large and diverse, traditional ways are being challenged by secular values across the board, meaning adults are also misbehaving. drinking is a major problem in c.h.smoking dope is popular not only among kids. take a look at the shuls on shabbos. lots pf booze little content. a change in values and priorties is in order or??????????
word wiz
TLC = Tender Loving Care
It-s up to us
B"H
Many of these kids are not making it in school either. We need programs for parents wich will teach them to recognize when there kids are in trouble at the earlyer stages. Alternative programs are needed for kids such as work study programs and mentor programs to give them a way to feel good about themselves, successfull and Chassidish even when they are not fitting into the typical yeshiva mold.
Yoohoooo
To Chassideshe Web:
They already have all those rules in almost every single home……in Iran! and look what kind of wonderful children they raise!
sheees in Fltabush
totally agree with annon 4:22:24
those mentioning take away this and take away that…have their heads in the sand. It is the 21st Century and it ain’t gonna happen. Be realistic.
Abit more tlc, actually alot more TLC to the kids and we’ll be fine. And for crying out loud can’t the rabomnnim and the meshictism and all the cooks in the kitchen just get along. I mean for heaven’s sake – just cut all the BS already.
sad
ive never written a comment before but im too upset now so i must….
everyone is just saying we have do this, we have to do that!!!
why dont you wake up and reallllllllllly do it!!
when you see a non tznius lady, -open up your mouth and say-"by you trying to be cute, you are affecting the whole chabad, all those shluchim out there who are working soooooooooo hard,-are being crushed now because their baalei baatim see this ‘supposedly’ lubavitch lady who realy looks like a girl from public school!!!!!!"
enough is enough, every single one of us must work on ourselves, our families, our friends….
we can all do it together!!
lchaim
non CHer teenager
as a tenn, i know that when i am told that im wrong, i will go out of my way to do the thing again to show my parents whos the boss! it may be abit sad but its true! and this is the case with most teenagers, and i’m admitting it but i know it is only natural.
what teenagers really need is not parents or community leaders to tell them off and get them into trouble, bc this doesnt help, if a person wants to do something, he/she is going to do it! what CH and all lubavitch communities around the world need is young shluchim to help them and to show them and lead them to the chasidish way of life.
talking from experience within the last yr, i only started coming up with new resolutions to be a proud chabad girl, only once i had learnt the right way and found that it was the path i wanted to lead in life! my parents telling me off ddint help in the slighest and the community gossip probably made things worse!
i probably wouldnt be classified as ‘chasidish’ and i may even be considered ‘not-so-chasidish’ but the fact is is that every teen wants to show off and be ‘cool’, and its only natural to want to have ‘fun’.
my message to all you CH parents and comunity heads is lay off your children, let them find the life that they want! remember, theyre not going to stay teenagers forever and evetually will have to find the way back home to lead a successful life!
i hope ive made my point and i hope some people will stop being so closed minded to the views of a tennager and give them the resources to find a new life!!
Anonymous
i think the problem in our community is that there is no activities for kids to keep them occupied. everything is outside of the community and it involves driving, time and money. there are families here that do not have a car available to drive the kids to all the activities, or do not have time, because of yonger kids and etc or do not have money to pay for swimming, dancing, music, art, karate, cooking or etc classes for their kids. it is not easy or cheap raising kids. but what do you expect from the kids that do not have even normal playgrounds to play at. the parents who live in apt building send their kids downstairs to play and kids are kids and without supervision they turn wild…..and that’s what other kids see and this is our next generation……so i do not know what i can personally do with teens but i do know what can be done with our younger generation that in couple of years will be teens…..keep the kids occupied. send them after school activities, spend time with them, talk to them and listen to them. lead them by example and see who their friends are. there is not much you can do about friends when they are older but if you start young you can at least try to shape their surroundings and who their friends are. it is also a sad fact but 1/2 of our community has no means for paying for all this programms for their kids. so may some programs can be sponsored or have scholarships available, because it is really a shame if a child has a potential in something not to develop it just because parents cann’t afford to pay for the lessons.
L.G.
To Chassideshe Weg,
Dude your retarded, get a freekin life and worry about your own kids. If you would stop talking crap about everyone else and worry about your own kids maybe something in this forsaken community will change.
BrookAve
To Chassidishe Weg: Number 3, a cell phone if used responsibly can be a tremendous help in this fast paced world. A driver can be saved with it. A credit card with limits is also a good thing to have. Number 5 on your list. Really, to limit yourself to garb in CH is really asking alot.
L.G.
All of you have so much time to read all this garbage, but when it comes to helping these kids nobody cares. all you do is talk. the problem starts with moshe rubashkin. He closed YAM and now the youth of CH have no controled environment to hang out in. If you really want to fix this problem, get him out of the community council and open YAM once again.
EMS-u MUST stop!
the parents of e.s. have no saychel, thier daughter is out of control, and they don’t see a problem, or, they are ignorning it! why is it that a favorite hobby for her is to prank call the montreal yeshivah dorm?! how can we expect anything from her if her parents don’t think there is a problem?! it’s so sad, it really is!
ch scares me!!
im a teenager and i know what this is like…if you take away a cellphone it works well only in longetrm. if you take it away for say a month…the kid will only get mad and find other ways to talk to the opposite gender. only if it is cancelled or taken away for a while will it work. the same goes for other privileges such as internet. do not take away internet because anyway there are other wways to go on and if its behind your back, you really have no way to control it. it makes so much more sense to use controls and keep a passowrd to the kids email and im. ive ben through it all…i know. and, why would i want to look up to my parents if they watch movies after we go to bed and then pretend they dont. do you know how much it hurt me when a friend told me that she saw my mom in blockbuster? werent we a movie free house? and how am i expected to wear socks if my mother doesnt? parents, please realize that , yes, we kids know a lot more than you think, and covering it up makes it worse on the kids when they end up finding out. nno kid wnats to hear that their parents were hiding these things from them.
Out of the House
To Chasidishe Weg:
Your 5 suggestions may be asking
too much. However, MOST DEFINITELY,
get the computer (i.e. Internet) out of
the home! See what difference that will
make. It will!
Anti....
"Yoohoooo wrote:
They already have all those rules in almost every single home……in Iran! and look what kind of wonderful children they raise!"
I don’t know how you can compeer g-d forbid the ways of Chabad to Iran? ( open up A Shulchos Aruch, I think you will be very serprised).
The fact is Having TV, internet, Newspapers etc… In the house is not a good thing.
Does this mean that I myself don’t have internet and read newspapers? No, But I know the Truth.
I grow up with a TV in my house, I wish I did not have one, It wasted so much of my time and learning.
A few years ago I was a learning teacher.
I thought the kids What the Rebbe said about TV (one such sicho is found- Likoty Sicos, 18 In the Ha’sofose, pg 459) I told them that I grow up with A TV and still watch Here and there (I wont go out of my way, but if it’s there, well I have a Yatzer Hora…) but in my home I will not have one. (And when I went out with my wife g-d bless here, that’s what I told here etc…)
The truth is still the truth no matter how many people do it; we must not deny the Emes.
If you are doing some thing wrong, know that it is wrong and you have to change you ways (when you are ready).
By making fun, you will never ever be able to go back.
And remember just b/c every body is doing it, does not make it right.
I hope I made my point.
______________________________________________
Another thing,
As I read All the post above, it seems that many people are not reading what our fellow Jews have written above.
How do I come to that conclusion?
Well I keep reading the same comments again and again like the person who is writing it just came up with the brightest idea.
People- if you want people to listen to what you have to say, you will (must) listen/read what is said to you.
[I’M sure that if people would only take a few minutes to read what others have written we would have half the post that we have.]
Also, we don’t know each other (i.e. most of use don’t use our real names and it’s best we should not).
What I don’t understand is how in a site were nobody knows the next person, there people who responded so personally (sometimes with much hate).
Example:
"Dude your retarded, get a freaking life and worry about your own kids. If you would stop talking crap about everyone else and worry about your own kid’s maybe something in this forsaken community will change."
How do the above know if the one posting has kids?
How does he know how his kids are?
He was just trying to suggest something.
You could agree or not, why get personal.
And again I will state if you don’t have all these things in your house, you have a better chance to succeed with your family, then with these things, that is the fact.
Wheres the love?
i wrote this comment on a previos article and i think this all aplies here:
Finally something to show the parents, rabbis, mashpias and princibals who are so niave. I am a lubavitch teen who is going through the "system" and it kills me to see what goes on behind closed doors. I think if we were being given alot of more love and care we would all want to try much harder to only do the right thing. But as long as we are judged, criticized and bashed the second we do something slightly wrong, these type of things will continue happening.
King- Pharaoh
webby,
You are a miracle worker. . .
It takes the Jpost a full day of bombshell news to get 100 Talkbacks. . ..
U mention the words "boys and girls" and u do it in half the time!!!
Keep up the good work :)
CEE ARE
To the kids on this post.
15 year old kids should be allowed to "do whatever they want" kids don’t know what they need. They are emotional, overly hormonal, irrational and still immature.
You don’t like hearing it? Tough. I was once 15 and I also thought I was smarter than the ret of the world. The older you get, the more you realize how foolish you were at that age. This is the oldest story in the book.
To our community,
I am not originally from CH, but I came here to raise my children as a Lubavitcher. We are a city of Chassidim and we have most definitely lost our way. To say "these things have always happened" is total BS. Of course they always happened, but not to this heightened degree.
In my years visiting Crown Heights as a kid/teenager/Bochur I remember that the streets just looked different. You would never see guys walking down the Kingston in Jeans. Forget Jeans …. you wouldn’t see any men over the age of 13 without their Hat and Jacket. We are supposd to be Chassidim and I think we have forgot that. If people in this community don’t like that they should move. Move to Flatbush or Lakewood or Monsey or Teaneck or the FiveTowns.
How can I raise my children in this community when they boys and girls walking down the streets together. Talking outside homes till early morning hours. Girls and guys smoking in the streets, cursing, listening to non Jewish music blasting from their cars.
The kids have to take some responsibility too. You can’t demand respect from parents and elders but at the same time not have the basic decency to respect that in Crown Heights a Chasidic community you should dress appropriate and respect the religious customs of the community. Boys and girls shouldn’t be talking together in public (or anywhere, but lets start with in public) and people, if you see them talking or hear it outside your home at 1 AM. Remind them to show a little respect for their own community.
To Chasidishe Weg:
You forgot step 7.
7) Buy steel bars and cement casing for cage and trays to bring bread and water to your kids who will occupy said cages.
Teach your children that they don’t need the wrong things, cause if just take them away, when they leave the house they will not hve learned anything.
Teach them something is wrong, don’t just take it away.
A Bissel Seichel
Last of all .. I have been seeing this new trend of these kids bringing their friends from Flatbush and other places to hang out here. For crying out loud. Why are we standing for this? We don’t have enough trouble with our own kids, we need Flatbush kids running around here disrespecting this community as well?
Trust me folks, there is enough blame to go around …
working on myself every day
TO NON CH-ER TEENAGER…
kudos on to you for realizing that the life you were leading was pathetic, to put it nicely. but i want to ask you a question- do you think that every teenager should try out all the things out there..like drugs, smoking, fashion, tv, boys/girl relationships… so that they could taste it, and then maybe get bored, or grow up??
would you want your kid to do that?
dont you know that any of this, even though a person might change, has formed their life? that it affects them? that it is murderous for them to break these bad habits? that when theyre under the chupah, they will be thinking/comparing it with a past relationship?
ALL THESE THINGS ARE BAGGAGE! YOU DONT WANT THIS TYPE OF BAGGAGE! NOT ME, NOT YOU, NOT ANYONE! BECAUSE THE WEIGHT THEY HAVE ON YOU IS FOR LIFE… AND ITS VERY VERY HEAVY.
a girl
to anti….
what are you anti?
cuz you sound like ur a pretty smart dude(i no that cuz ur married to a wife::) lol) and your comments are actually worth reading
i hope its not the anti im thinking about, ucz then ur intelligence just went down a notch- say about a foot long
non-CHer....
I’d like to put in my two cents as a frum teen who lives ::gasp:: in a home of reform Jews…. The parents in CH are absolutely naive about what their kids do…. I am very close with my shliach and his wife where I live and I can tell how bad the situation is just by meeting their families and knowing what their brothers and sisters are into and not into….both of their families are from CH and in each family there is a kid or two who is in trouble…or was in trouble..and it seems almost as if it is ignored…. One brother was sent to live with a family member who is on shlichus who is in more trouble than I ever could have imagined…. Is there nowhere constructive to send him!? He is a teenager in need of guidance and after living in CH he knows EXACTLY how to get around just about any rule! You think on shlichus in a place where nobody knows what a Jew even is it will be harder for him!? absolutely not! These parents need to find a place where their kids can grow not just throw them out or look down on them when they get into trouble…. The whole situation in CH is VERY sad… I made the decision myself at 13 to become frum and live the chassidishe lifestyle….but not every kid can deal with the peer pressure around them! I’m telling you as an older teen myself… If you give a kid a lot of space…they will give themselves twice as much…these kids get no attention and no wonder they fall under peer pressure! where are the parents??? when your son comes home at 2 am drunk dont just ignore it and say no it’s not my kid! because it is your kids…. stay involved in your kid’s lives…. watch who they’re hanging out with… dont give your kids cell phones and internet….Especially when they are 13! they dont need them…. if you dont know where your kids are at 13,14,15 years old and you need a cell phone to find them there are enough problems….dont be naive and blame things on other people…look inside your own house…. I come from a completely non-frum background where half of this is acceptable and I never did half of what these kids are doing…. If you can’t raise your own kids and deal with their problems…there are PLENTY of programs Lubavitch and non that can help them….
reb levi yitzchuk of bardichuv
why not be dan likaf zechus….
the boys were on 1 side of the mechitza, while the girls were on the other side of the mechitza. chances are they woke up at mid-night to recite tikun chatzos, and cry for the beis hamikdash.
another theory;
the boys were farbrenging, and the girls on the way home from their own farbrengen, and when they saw a few shvartzes down the block, they must have gotten scared, and at the very same time they heard bochurim singing [from thier farbrengen] they they went inside to use the bathroom.
oh, and the smoking was from reb yoel, who had just left home 5 minutes before that.
concerned
Someone posted about teens needing activities and the problem of money. It would be approriate to raise funds helping teens to attend extracurricular activities. I’m not the organizational type and have no contacts, but if a comittee were to sit down and discuss this, I’d be willing to join and advise.
Another thing is, the schools in CH should stop pushing shlichus. We grew up on Shlichus and my sister was telling me how all these shluchim come to BR at kinnus time and give shlichus speeches. Not everyone is fit for shlichus, and kids throw in the towel and say ‘Ah, I’m not good enough anyway, might as well drop it all’.
How about encouraging a nice honest life wherever it may be?
vB
These kids (age 17 – 19) should be part of shomrim, ther anyways out on the streets at night, let them do something good.
hmmm...
Reb Levi Yitzchuk..I’m usually one to preach about others needing to become more ‘dan lekaf zchus’, but, with this situation it seems pretty clear to me that they were caught doing something very wrong. The theory most would choose to believe is that it was a planned "event", a group of boys decided to invite two girls to "hang out" in the pefectly ‘normal’ "hanging out place" that just happened to be the shul’s basement. It shouldn’t have taken place anywhere, this "party", bringing the innapropriate behavior into a shul-that was a whole new level of "wrong."
Concerned-you bring up a good point. Perhaps the pressure put on teenagers is what causes them to rebel. But perhaps it is also the parents who don’t bother asking where their kid is headed that might be another problem. The parents that have just given up on CH’s reknown tznius issues, the co-ed parties, the friends that their kids choose..perhaps, those parents are at fault. Everyone agrees that they want their child to have freedom and to be happy, but their still is that fine line of being your child’s friend and being a parent.
There was a program that some girls i know attended, what became known as "the motzei shabbos thing"?! this was a program for all high school girls who chose to attend-sometimes it meant taking the girls to a gym, hearing an inspiring speech about shluchos, etc., -but it offered a fun activity for girls on a motzei shabbos. maybe this program should start again? the parents were happy that their kids were doing something good" on a motzei shabbos and at the same time their kids were having fun. just a thought. anyway.
eh
It is not the parents fault that these kids wore out 4:30 am, these kids come home once a week, & the parent don’t know weer they are for the rest of the week.
nh
It is the parent’s fault, that the kids are like this.
ld
To eh
you are 100% right, the school is treedind smart kids & dumb kids the same, if the school would give the dumb kids a little attention, they would not come out like this.
a shlucha
<<Another thing is, the schools in CH should stop pushing shlichus. We grew up on Shlichus and my sister was telling me how all these shluchim come to BR at kinnus time and give shlichus speeches. Not everyone is fit for shlichus, and kids throw in the towel and say ‘Ah, I’m not good enough anyway, might as well drop it all’.
How about encouraging a nice honest life wherever it may be?>>
Stop pushing shlichus?? What makes us different? If we become a community of businessmen and wives who stay home baking cookies and shopping on 13th Ave, we might as well leave CH and move to 5 towns, Flatbush, Lakewood- after all, there’s much less muggings THERE! NO- we are Lubavitchers and shlichus is our way of life! When the Rebbe sends out thousands of shluchim- is it just until the youth gets "so bad" that we can’t handle them anymore????
And how will "stopping to push shlichus" solve problems like this..exactly? Apparently one of the only ones who came up with any good ideas was a Shliach!
Yes, a "nice honest life style wherever it may be" is great and necessary for some- but shlichus, if it’s shayich, should be first priority. Yes, it’s hard to find places and yes not everyone may be cut out for it, although there are so many types of shlichus’in that being a "Chabad House rabbi" is not the only definition anymore!
No, there’s no easy answer and no I don’t think I have any answer at all. There’s no place for pointing fingers- no-one is being helped then. What is necessary is ACTION- ha’maseh hu ha’ikar. BR and other high schools work hard to reach out to all types of girls- and there are people who really care. Of course, there is much more that could and should be done both at schools and at homes….but what about the other girls
(and boys) in the class? It’s not as if you have no idea what the girl sitting next to you in class does at 2 am… reach out, just because you’re not her "type" doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t be her friend. And don’t look at it as your "shlichus" (oh, I forgot, we aren’t into that anymore, that was SOOO two days ago) or your good deed for the day, invest in it to make it a true friendship.
MOSHIAHCH NOW!!!
non CHer teen
to working on myself every day:
trust me, ive been there, done that, and no matter how much you tell a tennager, they will do what they want!! may as well lay off them a bit bc that way they will have room to think for themselves and discover this life to be the right one-thats instead of just being brainwashed into believing things.
and yes i do use the word brainwash bc i never knew anything better, i grew up watching rebbe videos no movies or tv, only niggunim and what else?!? i felt liek i had to explore something else because not eveyone in my school was lubavitch like me so there mustve been something else to life, not just chabad as i had been taught. well, after you explore, you will find what is best for you wether is is chabad, litvish, young israel, modern orthodox, chareidi etc. eventually, a teenager wil grow out of their ways and find a life best for them! stop spoonfeeding them and let them lead their own life and if it means exploring another-so be it!
if you wantt to make the journey easier, thats where the TLC comes in. show them you care and then maybe they’ll go straight instead of making a detour…
think about it!!
p.s. im 16 and i rlly dont know how much you value my opinion but im telling you from experience of ppl in my very own community…
chrf
hey LG i am with you all the way!
sick
I cant believe im reading this crap.
this is the least of ch concern! and you know what why all the sudden are you guys acting like were a community? take care of yourself.
dont make like you care. you really dont .
Itzik_s
While ALIYA is great, there may well be a stigma that it is not for "chassidishe" bochurim. Also – is there anything bichlal for girls?
What is needed is a legitimate recreation center – with a game room, a library including approved secular books and periodicals (if such exist), an Internet cafe (filtered access), musical facilities, extracurricular and vocational courses ranging from one on one learning to culinary arts to automotive, home and computer repair (not only for boys who cannot find their way in the yeshiva system, but also for those who have some spare time and want to know what to do when, later on, their car or laptop computer breaks down when they are on Merkos shlichus in yenem velt), and volunteer and professional counselors around to help with anything from adjustment issues to homework. And 2 such centers are needed – one for bochurim and one for girls.
wake up people!
i never wrote before but i am shocked!
why is everyone so quick at judging others before themselves. i have seem this few too many times in lubavitch. you werent at shul that night, you dont know these people, and you dont know the whole story. i have been in the litvish circles and lubavitch too. we critisize the "misnagdim" for the obsessions on lashon harah. but lubavitch says well we have ahavas yisroel and it includes lashon harah. if you people really fully cared you would not be so cruel and evil to ruin this girls life. i am sure she is far out of crown hights and locked in her room- crying overdossing and crying. from writing mean comments about her on line wont change her. it will need to be someone who loves her to pull her out of what ever it is. for all you know it could be she is a chasidish girl. just screwed up a few times. i mean she is human. people make mistakes. obviouly crown hights changed but where ever there is the most holliness thier is the most klipa. so look at the bright side. this generation never met the rebbe dont remember seeing him at farbrengens and on sundays. this generation isnt like before. people will change the rebbe never lets his chassidim fall. so all you out there who have a great cover up and pretend you are sooo chasidish and soooo worried about others, worry about yourself and stop ruinning people’s lives!
major rachilus goin on it sickens me!
anonymys
to non cher teenager your setting areaaly bad example example for all teens.because the fact is ther are more better teens than worse in ch!!
M from CH
I’ve never seen so many comments in my life, on any article!!. Hurray for Mosihe Feiglin and his outstanding shul ALIYA. I went there one Shabbos in the summer. The girls there are lovely, albeit not tznius. One of them wanted to know the meaning of a certain posuk. We need to speak and engage these good neshamos. They are beautifull jewish girls, really. More activities, YAM, volleyball turnaments, guitar farbrengens, kickboxing, aerobics (get out the anger) everything will make a difference. Let them organize activities. Theres no Jewish comunity center in Crown Heights fothese kids.Parents are out of the equation because kids at this stage cannot hear them. Hashem should bless them an protect them from harm
Anonymous
There is too much exposure over here abt some of the ppl involved. Please delete the details of who they are.. as in A,S,L. These ppl will be reading this, or hearing about this from friends and as much as they don’t care right now.. when they do care, they don’t have to live with this shame on top of it.
A Caring Voice
BH
Are we amazed that this happens in Crown Heights?Are we not shocked that it hasn’t happened more often? The messages kids hear today from every angel in CH is amazing.
Who can grow up in this enviorment with proper Hadracha? Yes Yechi, No Yechi. The Rabbonim are good, or I don’t have to listen to the Rabbonim. The most important sign on every post from the beis din is .. how woman should cover their hair. Where are the mashpiam? Who in CH understands the youth today? The Famlies today? It seems all of our leaders are just getting used to how to make a call with a cell phone!
Crown Heights has no leadership. No one to look up to. Its truly remarkable how so many … I really mean it, so many turn out wonderful adn chassidish, but the amount of familes going off the derech is beyond belief.
Families today in Crown Heights are so polorized. Some try to be super cool, others try their best to be Chassidsh. Who would have dreamed 25 years ago to trim their beard? Which mother or daughter would have dreamed to walk down the streets of HOLY CH in a tight skirt above their knees? What happened to the days when everyone wore nice impressive clothing which were very modest, and screamed IM A PROUD LUBAVITCHER? Who is leading today’s familes who need guidence with spiritual growth?
What Crown Heights needs is a CHABAD HOUSE. They work so well in so many cities for many frum kids. Frum Teens. Frum Familes. Crown Heights needs young Pioneers who will grab the imagination of our most thirsty families, and lead them as they would in Miami, Los Angeles, and other fine Lubavitcher communities.
I remember Simchas Beis Hashuavah … the whole NY came to us. Now, it has a name for HANG OUT. What happened to us? Did we lose focus on the community, and care more who says YECHI? Did we lose focus of what true respect of what a Beis Dins were about? Maybe the Rabbonim should also remember they must earn their respect? All in all this is the chaos our kids see, and we are suprised they act this way?
KAN TZEEVAH HASHEM ES HABRACHA .. may we make the veseel to be worthy of all the Brochos!
REALITY CHECK
REALITY CHECK: As a shliach many miles away and having extensive invovlement in all sorts of child behaviour I want to make two short observations:
1) There are three partners in child rearing: Parents, the school, and a little Mazel (HKB"H). You cannot blame any one part of the system without taking into consideration all 3 factors. Think about it!
2) Having scrolled through so many comments here, only one – that’s right, so far as I can see – ONLY ONE posting mentioned the Rebbe! And when you think about that a little deeper, you’ll come to know that "ut doh ligt der hunt bagruben!"
thinking....
first of all I am not here to write any type of lashon hora but to set the record straight… CAlifornia is not a bad place before people go and say that california is full of shtush go and look at the holiness of Crown Heights… parents need to take full responibility for what their children are doing…. parents feel as though if they don’t see something it really can’t b happening but the truth is is that it is happening. Eyes in Crown Heights need to be opened seriously… but also these teenagers are callling out from something they are missing in their lives.
this is a way of rebellion they are showing that they dont fit the mold everyone has made for them and that if they continue down this path they are heading for failure and definately wil never come back to the derech of Torah. this is an important issue that cannot be overlooked because kids are doing much worse things and will continue to do bad things if the proper discipline action is not taken.
parents feel that they cannot be harsh with their children.. when really these kids need a hardcore reality check this is not right and will never be right so making some place for them to hang out will b overlooking the problem and not solving the problem something needs to b actually done and it can not b collectively it must b on an individual basis..
basically the only thing that can b said is dont overlook the problem because although u think it may not b in sight it is definately happening and will continue to happen
one last word to people living in Crown Heights dont criticze other people not from crown heights because if their backrgound the focus really should b put on your own kids and students!!!
sorry so much more to write but feel i might be boring people
Professional Mom
Dear Webby,
Forgive me if I repeat some comments, but after reading the first 50 or so, I gave up. You wanted constructive comments…try these.
1. EVERYONE, including kids, is responsible & accountable for his/her behavior. If a toddler touches a hot stove there’s a consequence…he gets a burn.That’s how he learns that fire is dangerous.
It may not be the nicest lesson, but it’s effective.
Where were the consequences for these kids? I agree, no police, but why not haul the parents down to take care of THEIR KIDS. Did these kids clear up the mess they undoubtedly made? Did they put away any Seforim, leave a donation? (I mean financial) as an apology?
AND HOW DID THEY GET IN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?
2. YAM does good work. Not meaning to sound smug or self-righteous, my kids didn’t need them. But my kids needed other things. Each to his own…we must provide for EVERY SINGLE KID. There is no "normal" any more. The world has changed. There are too many ostriches with their heads in the sand in Crown Heights. Get used to the new world. Work for/with these kids.
3. PARENTS…get your heads out of the Gemorrah &/or Kugel & look, really look, at your kids. Look at their friends. Talk to them! Who gives a damn if your daughter passed her Navi test if she’s hanging out with girls (& boys!) who smoke, drink, & take drugs. Yes, people, that is happening here!
And is your son really the Chassidishe Bochur you boast about if he sneaks out of the house Friday night after having given a great D’var Torah to take a train to a club in Manhattan?
THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING!! How do I know & you don’t?
I talk to my kids. They never give me names (I wish they would), but we REALLY talk. Always did. And the younger ones talk to their older married siblings, & even to Bubby! Bubby also listens…AND HEARS!!
4. We need constant, 24/7 nightly patrols(yes, Shabbos too!)…I mean ALL NIGHT, to a) give kids a way to get home from Simchas, study sessions etc. & b) to chase out the lowlives from Flatbush, Williamsburg, BP etc. who influence our already troubled kids. One told me recently "I can do what I like in BP." So why was he here? Not to hear Chassidus, that’s for sure! Let’s get rid of them. Let them start fouling their own back yard.
Webby, you give a marvellous forum for people to air their views. This is an invaluable service. Unfortunately, a lot of the comments show this community’s ignorance of anything outside the shtetl or realities of the world. And some people are just STUPID.
If this community council got government $$ for at-risk youth, there’s a lot we could do. Of course, the $$ would have to be used for these kids, not to fund law suits and pet projects.
Crown Heights, on a secular level, is a disaster. We have corruption & no facilities or resources. I keep saying we need to toss out this CC & get in young, dynamic, men AND WOMEN who care not about their egos but about their neighbors. Of course, no one listens to me. As a woman I can’t vote for a SECULAR council.
Thanks for posting this. Will anybody read it???
The Blame Game
Wow people love to blame everyone else but them self’s. That is human nature, blame everyone else so responsibility dos not fall upon you. If everyone stops for a minute and thinks, how they can resolve this problem, and put your resolve in to motion. The Rebbe will be very proud. That’s the bottom line.
non CHer teen
to anymos:
well then i wasnt exactly reffering to them was i!! and that means that these ‘non-problem’ kids know what they want from themselves in life and therefore dont ask these questions…you shouldnt worry about them, or should you??
Random.Bochur
Lets not "shoot the messenger" (be it MSN, AOL, skype, whatever). You solve problems going to the root cause. Dealing with the symptoms will only make for a quick-fix response that may do more damage than good.
Education, people, education. That is the key.
Montreal
haha, there are maybe like 3 people from all the commenters who really know what is going on and what really happened. it’s interesting to watch everyone come out and put in their two cents about what we should do, and how we should look at it. meanwhile, no one knows the backround story, no one here knows who these kids were, and where they are coming from.
if only you would know what type of people these teen girls and guys are, you would all change you’re comments, Trust Me!
so, who am i? what gives me the right to say this? well, i don’t want to let everyone know who i am right now, but, i will say this…
it is very unfortunate that i had the oppurtunity to get to know some of the people involved, i knew one of them for a long time. people, you don’t know the meaning of the word “messed up” until you come across this person!
i wish i can give examples but that would be giving away too much info.
the sadest part is, there is no help available to these people/girls. thier parent’s don’t see the problem, (i’m not kidding!… this is 100% true as g-d is my witness), thier parents take it as an insult when you try to explain to them that thier daughter is in alot of trouble and she really needs help! it’s SOOO sad when the parents don’t see a problem! other’s tried to help too, local mashpi’im, etc. but how can you help a 15 year old girl if her parents don’t want her to be helped?!
it almost makes you cry when you hear a 15 year old boy say to you “you’re 19, right? well, you have a life and a job and whatever, but me, i’m 15, i don’t have a life, i don’t have a future, so i don’t give a s*** what i do, i’ll f*****g kill you!”
-that was the words that came out from one of the boys who were involved motzie shabbos, he said that to one of the members of shomrim who responded…. now people, what does that say?? who’s fault is that? who do we go to? what can we do? again, keep in mind, some of these parents really don’t think there is a problem, i’m not saying all of the parents, but i know a few of the parents personally, they really don’t see a problem!
for instance, to demonstrate how the parent’s don’t see a problem, how can you put you’re daughter into a non jewish school???! HOW? HOW? HOW??? yes, true, she was asked to leave bais rivkah, then bais yaakov, … but a NON JEWISH SCHOOL?!?! a class room mixed with goyishe boys and goyishe girls, at FIFTEEN YEARS OLD?!!? NOW TELL ME THERE ISN’T A PROBLEM WITH THE PARENTS!!
if you’re son/daughter is not accepted into one jewish school, you try ANOTHER one, and then ANOTHER one, you make deals, you negotiate, you try you’re hardest,… but a NON JEWISH SCHOOL?! for a girl who was born into a frum lubavitch community, into a supposedly frum family, to go to a non jewish school is just beyond comprehension, i’m sorry.
all i’m trying to state here, and to let everyone understand, is that this is not a simple issue. everyone here is saying that we need to do things like “TLC” (for those who for some reason don’t know what that is, TLC stands for Tender Loving Care not Taxi & Limo Company)and people are suggesting that we need the rabbi’s/mashpi’im to help out, and that the parent’s should be mor aware and on top of everything in a certain fashion (meaning, how to let you’re kids use a cell phone, or the internet, etc).
so my point is, that you ALSO have to take into CONSIDERATION that, not all the parents are 100%! what do you do if there is a major problem and the parents, for whatever reason, are blind to this?
why should a girl and boy grow up not frum, and with no productive learning, and probably no future, because of thier parents’ mistake???! yes, it’s one thing to not be frum, for alot of people that’s fine. but, to be hanging around in the streets all night, drinking and smoking, doing thing’s you should not be doing, this is not even appropriate for a non frum person, or even certain standards for a goy!!
i hope everyone here understand’s what i’m trying to bring out, i’m not trying to make anyone feel bad, (or worse), i’m not trying to make anyone look bad or feel like crap. i just want everyone here to understand what we are really dealing with,…… frumkiet begins at home, if the parent’s don’t see a need, and don’t want help for thier daughter, then there are SERIOUS issues that need to be dealt with.
-an insider.
Frustrated
Anti…. wrote:… something… but there were so many spelling and grammatical errors that I gave up after the first paragraph. It’s too bad that your ideas couldn’t be communicated to others because you don’t know English. Especially because "a girl wrote" that "your comments are actually worth reading".
This site needs comments to be edited.
BrookAve
I trust we are all licking our chops, looking forward to another Webby exclusive of an early morning raid at a C.H. Shul of your choice. You think when the Holy Boymelgreen Mikva opens up on E. Parkway it will get over 100 posts? I say, as long as the ice cream shop stays open, everything is ok with the world.
concerned
To Shlucha: I’m sorry, but you youself say that not everyone is fit for shlichus, and despite the ‘new types of shlichus’ coming up it’s still not the solution. Did you know that in days bygone a shliach could only be a true mekushar? NO wonder there are so many problems. As I’ve said, I myself grew up on shlichus (the old kind, with no milk and no treats and no friends) and while I’m drawn towards it a bit, I’m realistic and know I can’t do it because of certain hashkafic shortcomings. Being true to myself is more important. And in most places, shlichus ain’t what it used to be. I wish more shluchim would work quietly and modestly instead of writing in every step to col or shmais.
Back to the issue at hand- not everyone is fit for shlichus, especially because times have changed whether you like it or not, and while some kids in BR feel the way you do, most do not, even the good kids. I’d rather have my kids teach or own a business (it doesn’t have to be in NY, you know…) than go to a town of 500 Jews and fight with the reform temple.
I’m not saying BR shouldn’t talk about shlichus at all, but they should stop pushing it as the beacon of light, the eternal salvation, because it’s psychologically damaging.
Crown Heights Needs Help
I dont consider myself religous anymore thanks to the wonderful crown heights system. You cannot blame a kid, he is just a product from a bad factory. religon is very good, but after going through the Crown Heights Yeshivas, I stopped. The problem here is the Yeshiva, and the fact that Parents are so brainwashed that they send their child just so people shouldnt speak about them. The parents are to concerned about their reputation that they fail to realize that their child is in trouble. I learnt nothing from Yeshiva, if anything it took me down in life. I had to learn everything on my own to succeed in life. i.e. Math !READING! writing etc.
I regret growing up in Crown Heights, and I dont blame the kids. They should choose a better enviorment. Not a shul. But other then that I dont blame them. I went to all the Yeshivas, and Im not alone in this situation. So dont say "exception" because you dont know the half of it.
a friend
THIS IS ALL CROWN HEIGHTS FAULT!!!!! NOT THSE GIRLS AND BOYS! and whoever posted that comment about whoever EMS is…i think u should keep ure personal problems with her btwn u and her…NOT with the entire nation. deal with ure own issues, and the world will become a better place. However…if u feel that u can talk to her in that way, then u should get her help, not try to brag about it.
me
this is not the parents fault at all!! this is a case of a girl knowing the wrong boys, and therefore trying to maybe do something to get their attention. i dont understand something….why is every1 here talking about this ONE girl, and none of the boys or the other girl?? this is not something she did on her own, is it? crown heights’s environment is soooo bad that maybe these girls felt that they can just walk into a shul without any problems b/c every1 does it, so maybe therefore it makes it right. dont u think so? and another thing, i dont think this was ”just another incident”, i think this whole thing was a lack of maturity, but not only in those teens, but in the shomrim members who were there. and i heard alittle bit of wat happened, and there was noone in specific to blame for this! this is an issue that has to be dealt with the proper way, not online showing ppl’s thoughts and comments about this one girl! this is disgusting, immature, and just plain out mean!!! STOP THIS WEBBY. its u whos in control of this website, take some control over wat goes on this ok? by someone writing EMS FROM MONTREAL…is wrong! thats not something that should be on ure website im srry. i enjoy reading articles on this website, but NOT ppl’s names! its called privacy, and u know that! do something!!
A CONCERNED YOUTH
ITS NOT RIGHT THAT THE ENTIRE CH IS PUTTING DOWN THE YOUNGSTERS.YOUR SUPPOSED TO HELP THEM AND NOT THROW THEM AWAY LIKE THERE PIECES OF TRASH…WHAT ARE U DIFFERENT THAN THEM????????WERE ALL PPL WITH DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW.JUST BECAUSE YOU PPL ARE WAREING COSTUMES AND CANT SHOW YOUR TRUE COLORS…ALL YOU "CONCERNED" PPL OUT THERE, THAT THINK THAT BY GOSOPING IS GETTING THE PROBLEM BETTER,YOUR ACTIONS ARE PUTTING THEM INTO A DEEPER DITCH WHICH WILL LATER BE HARDER TO GET OUT OF….I LIVE IN CH AND I THINK THE PPL HERE ARE SO STUCK UP,IF THEY JUST SMILE AND BE HAPPY THEY CAN CHANGE MANY LIVES….Y ARE THERE SLUCHIM OUT OF CH.CH NEEDS ONE…SOMEONE THAT THEY CAN RELATE TO,SHOW THEM THE RIGHT WAY…TO ALL U GOSSIPERS OUT THERE….UR ACTIONS CAN LOSE ANOTHER SOUL…SO U STOP IT..AND UNDERSTAND THERE POINT OF VIEW AND DONT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS………
Anti Mishichist...
"a girl wrote:
to anti….
what are you anti?
cuz you sound like ur a pretty smart dude(i no that cuz ur married to a wife::) lol) and your comments are actually worth reading
i hope its not the anti im thinking about, ucz then ur intelligence just went down a notch- say about a foot long"
That really shows how open minded you are and how much you are willing to learn.
If you think i’m a pretty smart dude, then maybe I can teach you a thing or to about Chabad/the Rebbe/his teachings etc…
I am an Anti Mishichist; they make a Chillol Hashem and a Cillol Lubavitch etc… etc… etc…, They took a holy man and made a joke out of him. (This is not really the discussion here, so I wont get to in to this- It’s been done.)
If you already brought it up,
If was the Mishichitim that took the Rebbe away from these kids.
[I’m not saying that it would not happen -but not to such extent.)
Example:
When for every Machlokes/fight/court case they used the Rebbe to justify what they were doing.
Taking the Rebbes word and turning them up side down.
Turning right to left, Wrong to right.
I.E. Destroying everything the Rebbe was/is.
(you want a history lesson?)
But as you see from my previous comment, I don’t like talking about the problem (we all seem to know what they are) I like talking about solutions.
King-Pharaoh
Webby,
Get in contact with "proffesional mom" and see if she will let u publish her comments as a "rant" it really is a very good "comment" and one that people should read. . .
lost
apparently parents telling you what to do isnt gona work. teachers-forget it. these kids…all kids need a mashpia. but how do we make having a mashpia a "cool" "in" thing inorder for ALL kids (especially these kinda kids..) to have one
any ideas?
im sick of all this
what the heck? you guys are all being hot shots and saying how we must help everyone blah blah blah…but how can you go and say other pl are bad when you do the things you do? you are all such hpocrites…i mean just take a look at the language you have all been using…crap…damn…hell…are these words for a lubavitcher chossid to use? how do you wnat to help others back on the derech if you are not completely there yourself?
living in basement
the problem in ch is plain and simple.this is the only community where there are hundreds of kids coming here and living in basements.no parents etc.if u people would only know whats going on in these basements things that i cant mention . i hope u understand . i think there has to be another solution what to do with the children of the shluchim and other kids from israel and other places that come here from all over the world to live in the basements without parents. also tishrei is coming .do u have the slightest idea what goes on here .?with the teenagers .i can tell u it aint as holy as u think its really the oppisite.parents do u know where ur kids are during tishrei .they tell u farbrangen .yea they are frabrangen but not the one u think its really partying .do u know what goes on at these parties????? there is much more to write but it hurts what happened here in ch…its a mess.dont blame the kids its the whole system is really messed up ……..
Excuse me!
Why are you guys all yelling at the boys? your making girls sound like a diesese: They were there w/ GIRLS! get a life! And as many other people wrote, i think that somone has to organize a group for both boys AND girls! YAM is only for boys! What are girls supposed to do- sit home and knit?!?!
disturbed
Binyamin,
What are you thinking?
Why do you feel the need to embarrass your whole community?
Do you think its funny?
You are affecting those that are being spoken about, and the whole lubavitch community at large!
You should be ashamed of yourself.
There isnt a single reason why you should post such a story.
Granted, it does provide entertainment BUT YOU HAVE TO THINK OF THE BIGGER PICTURE.
Remember this; Every action has a reaction.
enough is enough
Let’s turn a leaf and concentrate on the good going on in crown heights. Maybe you should have " I was touched story" every day, like the one that appears in the nshei newsletter, where we can participate by writing stories of acts of random kindness.
Chabad lubavitch
"hashem yirachem al amo yisroel" we are left here 12 years witout a rebbe BEGASHMEYUS to lead us and guide us…..look to what we have came to moshiach has to come cuz the olnly power in chabad lubavitch is the rebbe and the rebbe only!!! so till very very soon when moshiach is gono come "halt zich on af di klam-ke" — the rebbe said moshiach is ready to come
CH Observer
[b]b) to chase out the lowlives from Flatbush, Williamsburg, BP etc. who influence our already troubled kids.[/b]
caring voice above wrote a rather decent post until I read this sentence …..
All I can say then without more insult is; It takes one to know one! Shame on you, your message got lost in your warped little world!
SAD GESZHE
SOLUTIONS ARE NOT GOING TO BE EASY. MY
COMMUNITY OUT OF TOWN HAS THE SAME PROBLEMS!
THE FRUM ARE A MIX OF ALL GROUPS THERE ISN’T THE
WARFARE THAT CH HAS AND IT’S HAPPENING HERE
TOO. KIDS FROM FRUM FAMILIES ARE FREYING OUT.IF
SCHOOLS HAVE GREAT TORAH LEARNING OR NOT, IF
THE SCHOOL IS STRICT OR SUPER UNDERSTANDING,
MODERN ORTHODOX, LUBAVITCH, SATMAR, YESHIVISH
ETC, AND IN OUR CITY WE HAVE GOOD ORTHODOX
SCHOOLS NOT MARKED BY AS MANY OBVIOUS
PROBLEMS AS THOSE IN BROOKLYN. SOMETHING(S)
IS/ARE INFLUENCING OUR KIDS IN WAYS FAR DIFFEENT
FROM THE PROBLEMS OF THE PAST- THE DESCRIPTION
OF THEIR ACTIONS AND COMMENTS TO SHOMRIM
( MINUS THE THREATS) SOUNDS JUST LIKE WHAT WE
HEAR IN OUR COMMUNITY. SOMETHING HAS RADICALLY
CHANGED IN THE LAST 10-12 YEARS TO CAUSE OUR
KIDS TO THINK THEY AREN’T JUST FREYING OUT BUT
TURNING ON THEIR COMMUNITY AND CLOSEST
PARENTS IN A FAR MORE ALENIATED WAY THAN USED
TO BE THE CASE WITH FREI KIDS.I DON’T HAVE AN
ANSWER BUT:
1. THEY CAN’T BEGIN TO SCARE US- THESE ARE NOT
JUST KID STUFF. EVERY PARENT SHOULD HAVE BEEN
NOTIFIED, AND IF ANY OF THEM TRY TO GET PHYSICAL
THE POLICE WILL HAVE TO BE INVOLVED, SORRY TO
SAY, OR EVERY PHYSICAL ATTACK WILL EMBOLDEN
THEM TO GO FURTHER OUT. ARE WE WAITING FOR
JEWISH GANGS TO "MARK TERRITORY" AND START
DRIVE- BY ATTACKS LIKE NON-JEWS DO? BLACK
COMMUNITIES WHERE I GREW UP USED TO BE POOR
BUT SOLID, PRETTY SAFE AND ADULTS TOOK
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR KIDS- BUT IT CHANGED.
SOME PEOPLE BLAME IT ON WELFARE PROGRAMS.
COULD THE PROGRAMS WE TAKE PART IN HAVE
SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT- ESPECIALLY IF KIDS
GROW UP WITH LEARNING THAT TORAH VALUES ARE
OUR LIFE AND THE LENGHTH OF OUR DAYS, BUT
SEE PARENTS USING (AND ABUSING AND BREAKING)
TORAH WHY SHOULD THEY CARE OABOUT ANYTHING.
A HETER HERE, A LITTLE FUDGING OR IGNORING
OF HALACHA THERE, IF PARENTS PICK AND CHOOSE
WHICH OF THE 613 THEY WILL OBSERVE, AND IF THE
KIDS COME TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE ATITUDE IS
PERVASIVE THROUGHOUT CH, HOW CAN WE TELL THEM
ANYTHING THEY WILL PAY ATTENTION TO?
SAD GESZHE
OBSERVATION ON SHLICHUS:
SHLICHUS IS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE THE MOTIVATION,
TORAH STRENGTH, AND IDEALISM TO LIVE FOREVER
IN A NON-FRUM COMMUNITY. IT ISN’T A STATUS
SYMBOL OR A PARNASSA MACHINE FOR SHLIACHS’
KIDS. THE REBBE REFUSED SHLICHUS TO PLENTY OF
IDEALISTIC BUT UNQUALIFIED ANASH. THE MISNAGDIM
THINK MEN SHOULD LEARN IN KOLLEL FOREVER AND
ANASH THINK SHLUCHUS IS FOR EVERYONE- BOTH ARE
TOTAL PERVERSIONS OF HIGH IDEALS. TODAY’S TAKE
SHLICHUS WOULD HAVE INSPIRED SOME VERY SHARP
FARBRENGENS, I THINK. "NEW" SHLICHIM ARE
FOCUSED FIRST ON THEMSELVES, THEN ON KIRUV.
THEY WOULD DO BETTER TO TO STAY IN A GOOD
RELIGIOUS NEIGHBORHOOD, GET A JOB MAKING
BOXES OR SOMETHING, AND TURNING THEIR HOMES
INTO "CHABAD HOUSES " WHEN THEY’RE AT HOME, AND
KERUV, LIKE CHARITY, BEGINS WITH ONE’S OWN
FAMILY.
worn out & defeated by the system
All this talk, but no action.
That’s Crown Heights.
Nothing will change.
to: --medel ch--
oh really, who do u think that ”person” should be? what are u talking about? doesnt the Rebbe sound familiar???????????????????????? of course…who else do we need??? the Rebbe!!!!!!!!!!
And to everyone else, who is ”discussing” (not!) this topic: enough lashon hara already!…your not helping moshiach come closer…so then why were u put on this earth for??? now go get busy with doing more mitzvos so that moshiach can come already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
soldier
convince them all to get a life and join the army!
it worked for me and many oif my friends
Just another bochur
Webby great job. This is a great way for people to vent their feelings. Keep up the good work.
BrookAve
Webby: I suggest that on Shabbos afternoon you start drinking gallons of coffee so that you will be alert for this weeks 4:30 am call. Mmm which cozy basement will it be? No lack of rat infested basements!
a lil more love...
maybe the answer to all of crown heights’ problems is simple: LOVE!
a kid
these "kids" are not hanging out to spite their parents or teachers or to get them angry. they just want to have a good time. they are not angry rebellious teenagers..what harm are they causing???
LOVE kiruv.
lets try love & compation.
Excuse me!
to: to–mendel ch–:
The teens don’t want to hear about moshiach, the Rebbe, or mitzvos! if they cared they would be in 770 davening! get a life! you should be trying to RELATE to them, not stuff a lecture down their throats!
Please be careful in the future.
would someone mind watching your language?
you don’t have to tell everyone online the words you use during your day-to-day life, and especially not use it when you post a comment. This is supposed to be a crown heights website;no one asked for cursing or a need for fowl language. Before clicking on "add comment" I suggest u read it over and make sure your comment is realtively decent when concerning proper words. you don’t have to use such words just to bring out your opinion. Bad language reflects on the personality whether the readers know you or not, it’s for urself; cause it affects you in all aspects, including your behaviour, not only your spiritual status.
A montrealer
No one asked for details. please stop writing about Montreal. I’m proud to live here! It’s peaceful and calm.
no rumors needed!!!
westbury
that’s nice that you’re proud to live in montreal, but i’m sorry, fact is fact!
no more snow
when will this golus end
to CHer
I think that one of the problems is that we wait for the Rabbonim to come up with a solution. However, it is NOT the Rabbonim’s fault. The problem (especially with a 15 year old) begins at home. Parents have to take charge and come up with a plan to fix the problems within their own home.
My Philosophy
I think everyone needs to stop and reflect on the fact that the whole world is now a living lie ‘Olam Deshikra’
And that the system that we as lubavitch is in, as well as all other school systems in other sect’s is the same way
teens feel trapped in the fact that they cannot express doubt in Hashem or other issues in yiddishkeit for fear that there name will be messed up.
we need to change that, b/c YOU who said that the problems start at home, you obviously do not have any siblings or children that went off the derech or you would never say that, its easy for you to judge, but the fact is that its the system adn society we live in, that teens feel trapped in this circle of lies, so they figure they might as well push out all the way
IT IS NOT THE PARENTS FAULT
la
california has no prblems there are SOME fied out 1s i mean evey city got theres but not as bad as ch if god forbid somfing like dat would happen wich neve we would helpp em and get em a mashpia
!!!!!!!!
the rebbe once said, that when u see someone in trouble, or doing something that might not be soo right, u should try to HELP THEM!!! it is ure responsibility to do so, no matter wat. we are all g-d`s children, and it makes me sick to see all this nonsense going around about these teenagers! DO SOMETHING to help them.
meeeee!!!
obviously u guys dnt knwo but u couold nvr help or change a person unless they themselves wanna change….so even if u wanan go n try n help them nothin is gonna work unless they wanna change n listen to u ppl!..soo have fun though!
!!!!
but wat if the person DOES want to change…but they just need that little push"!
Moshe (also a parent) from Los Angeles
There is a school in California called JETS they focus on helping children like this. If a few more "mechanchim" would see what I write here, and open a few more schools that cater to children who don’t fit "the mold" maybe these things would happen much less than they do.
Not every child fits into the schedule that the yeshivas make, and to help them by letting them enjoy school, never hurt anyone.