74 Comments

• enough

  you’re talking about a machlokes box. how would you call that column???? i’m sick and tired of people starting more machlokes. hasn’t this community suffered enough? no more lashon hara on any of the rabanim. enough

• sidur kidushin

  I don’t get the Rebbes says to check what the halocho is, in the letter that Rabbi Marlow and Rabbi Osdoba wrote they quote sources that this belongs to the more deasro so why will Rabbi Osdoba admit it was an error? It makes very much sense that should be an authority to check and approve who will be eligible to do it other way with be hefker velt!!!

• non rabbi

  broin is not a rabbi
  just shoteh rosho vegas ruach

• meir

  R` braun has no smicha he can not be mesader kiddushan, period.

• meir

  R` braun has no smicha he can not be mesader kiddushan, period.

• awacs

  “as her personal mouthpiece” – is this a typo, or are you telling us another reason why Rabbi Braun is ineligible to be our Rov?

• What???

  Well if there would be a Beis din in crown heights no problem.
  But i dont need any babies to help me!

• UPS

  what can brown do for you?

  MACHLOKOS! MACHLOKOS! MACHLOKOS! = DEATH TO YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY

• rebba answer

  in 770 the rebba wrights clear anyone has the right to be mesader kedusim. you do not have to ask any reshus if one one does he is doing the opposite of the rebba. when the finall contract with the rabbinim they all understood that this is against the rebba.

• Zaide

  You do not need a Rov to Mesader K’Dushin. Period.

• very convenient

  How convenient that once Rabbi Ozdoba no longer has sole control of the badatz, he suddenly realizes that he has “erred”?

• The Eyes Don-t Lie..........

  When you look at the eyes of Rabbi Ozdoba you see peace and serenity. You see love and understanding. You see acceptance, respect and empathy.

  When you look at the eyes of Rabbi Braun, you don’t see any of the above. What you do see is fear and deception, undeserving self pride, disdain and condescending to others.

• chutz[pa

  some chutzpa to force people to go and do things that the rebba stated very clear….any one can be mesader kedusin. thee rebba knew all your rabonim shlchon orech. chutzpa mamess.

• No way to explain it...

  … Besides that when in Moshiachs times – Chutzpah Yasgeh.

• braun

  how does braun know what reb zalman shimon did he was then by the ungaressha hate people.

• no

  you are going against the rebbe if ye

• Yasher Koach CH Info

  Words have meanings. I thank you for using proper words, specifically proper “titles” for individuals. It is “Rabbi Osdoba”! It is “R. Braun”! The distinction is crystal clear. Although I would put instead “R? Braun” until that question is cleared up. Thank you for all you do to keep us informed.

• chutzpe yasgi, yisbariru

  None of the writing appears to be the rebbe’s handwriting, but rather his secretary.

  doesn’t matter anyway. it’s kol d’alim gvar now.

• Meh Hoya Lonu

  Despite this, Rabbi Osdoba had always insisted that he has sole authority over Kidushin in Crown Heights.

  When Rabbi Osdoba was recently confronted with the Rebbe’s handwritten notes on the matter, he admitted that he had erred, and reversed his long-standing prohibition on the practice.

  What? Wait! He knew this for years and then when he got caught, he said oh, sorry??? That not good. What’s his explanation. I’m not for Rabbi Schvei, but at a minimum Rabbi Osdoba has to lose the right to misader kidushin. A Rov works for the community. That’s terrible that he’s been going against the Rebbe all this time.

• menachem

  You can learn the relevant Shulchan Aruch (Yorah Deah 245:22) youself here: http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfp…

  See the Ramah, Pischei Teshuva, and Gilyom Maharsha – one may not be Mesader Kedushin in a city that is under another Rav’s juristiction unless he gets permission and any payment must go to the Marah DeAsrah.

• Moshiach Now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  To Rabbi Braun,
  Someone who comes into the Community like this and creates Machlokes…..Must Go!!!!!!!!!

• hey

  stupidity rocks

• REALITY CHECK

  Well I know of two chupas going down next week and neither will include said Rabbonim. Bring it on!

• Proof not here say!

  You wrote: “When Rabbi Osdoba was recently confronted with the Rebbe’s handwritten notes on the matter, he admitted that he had erred, and reversed his long-standing prohibition on the practice.”
  WHERE IS THE LETTER!?
  R’ osdoba should put out a letter stating that the rabonim DO NOT have authority with regards to being mesader kiddushin!!!

• Thinking....

  1. can you show a clear Ksav Yad of the Rebbe (with a pinuach)regarding Sidur Kidushin.
  2. can you produce a letter from Rabbi Ozdoba regarding his error (I’m sure he was involved in the writing of his own contract – so why would he make that mistake in the first place).
  3. even if what is written is true, the answer from the Rebbe is not a clear Hora’ah. it is just saying that it doesn’t belong in the contract, but you should check what is the din according to Halacha (Halachically Sidur Kidushin goes to the Mara D’asra).

• ETE

  And what happens if it does happen? Kidushim not valid?
  An other (real) Rabbi did my kiddushim, am I not legit married now?
  Does this psak also apply for the past?
  Im starting to get worries.
  NOT!!!!

• This is not new

  we were threatend when we wanted another Rav to be mesadik Kedushin. It’s terrorism and no one can stand up to these bullies and thugs. we couldnt, we had enough stress just m,aking a wedding without being threatened.

• CHLEAKS.COM

  1) If B.S. (Braun and Schwie) want to control something they should start with themselves.

  2) The so called CH Beth Din is nothing but a proxy for the Government funded, non-for-profit Crown Heights Jewish Community Council, Inc.

  Every-time the thieves and Mossrim at the CHJCC need a distraction for the community, they come out with these stupidities. They want me and you discussing this B.S. over our Shabbos tables rather then discussing the millions they stole from the community.

  It also leads me to believe that perhaps the CHJCC have recently received a vast amount of money by way of Government grant/contracts and need this distraction. I will look into this.

• Free Will

  Whatever they can’t get by the peoples free will they will try by force.

  They have and will fail!!!

• Corruption

  Don’t you love how they bring Marlow back to life anytime they want to justify their stupidity. Why do they think we care what Marlow did or didn’t. Marlow was just as corrupt as they are.

• Sholom B.

  Please!! is there anyway to get rid of this guy?? Where did he come from?

• Better Question

  An even better question is whether Braun, who is suspected by Rabbi Osdoba of committing fraud with respect to whether or not he has smicha, and who should be in siruv for improperly ignoring a hazmana to a din torah about this, can be mesader kidushin at all.

• Question

  Presently, does everyone who has weddings in Crown Heights use someone from
  the Beis Din?

• today i am happy

  today is a happy day for me.

  at first i thought that Brown will play the sly game and maneuver himself into the position and slowly start showing his true colors. but i guess that after noticing the kind of people who he thought were his pepole, the same people who aren’t and cant put together his salary, so that he can pay his bills like a mench, or pay tuition as it says in shulchan oruch. (remember the letter before pesach begging for money for brown) he now is grasping and trying to force himself on the community.

  i am happy, because he brought his downfall that much closer. this tactic has been tried abd failed by previous badatz. in adtion (and we shouldn’t need more) to the rebbe being against the badatz having the monopoly on sidur kidushin, which rov in his right mind wants to force themselves on people who don’t want them, nor trust them.

  this past shvous brown had a few terrorists call the gaboim and warn them that if brown does not get the aliyah there will be a riot in shul. it was later found that brown himself initiated this call. is this a rov? at a certain point we were told about his malois and about his charisma etc etc, he visited and spoke in a few shulls over the past year, and the results were very poor.

  my friends even if chas vishoolom he did have a right to sidur kidushin. today and for the past 20 years we are no longer ONE community, this fact can be blamed on the original and current members of Badatz. and the people around them.

  today for better or for worse crown heights is an area of multiple communities, as was evident in the last election for the vadd hakall, gaboim, and for brown.

  brown was elected by a very very slim amount, and even that was only due to the fact, that he was hidden and the community was sold a “donkey not a horse” most people had no idea who this person was.

  the people literally threw out the old members of vadd hakall specifically the ones who were maschist, same with gaboim.

  we are today like boro park where there are many communities and no one beis din can force there views on the crown heights.

• ruvi

  rabbi Osdaba needs to write a letter with Segal saying that anyone can do it with rishus from one of the rabbonim

• to number 3

  crown heights is no longer ONE comunity.

  its like saying beis don of bobov in borugh park are the only ones that can be sidur kidushin in all of boro park, including, litvish, modern, satmar, belz, gur, klizenberg. etc etc.

  CH today is divided, its a fact. it is choped in many diffrent camps. it is very safe to say that brown dosent reprent and i mean truly represent more then 15%

• Moon Catcher

  According to some poskim (Minchas Elozor) there is a shaylo in the kidushin.

• pinny

  Segel and OSdaba need to write a letter against and also Rabbi Braun is is Siruv he is not able to be misader kedushun..

• to #34 gabboim

  The current gaboyim are 3 out of 4 meschists and fighting against the owners of 770. Gerlitzky is the biggest meshichist of all of them. He says Yechi, Rebbe MHM and Shlita in every of his announcements. Last election he made a deal to sign over the shul when he gets elected, he fooled us just to win. I hope in a year from now when elections will take place again we should correct our mistake and NOT VOTE FOR HIM!

• Schar

  I don’t believe for a second that Rabbi Osdoba said that. When he and Rabbi Marlow wrote that letter they already knew the answer from the Rebbe. I clearly remember that this letter was written because the Rebbes answer got out by someone that holds himself as a Rabbi (but hardly knows yivre) and wanted to be mesader kidushin his son and rabbi Osdoba knowing him very well did not allow him and just approved his brother (by the end he grabbed the mic from his brother and was mesader kidushin by himself). Another valid reason he won’t admit he made an error is because sidur kidushin is his guaranteed bread and butter. It brings him between 30-50 k a year. I’m not saying right or wrong and not getting into the discussion what the Rebbe meant in the answer. I’m just saying a practical opinion which it’s valid if you be (as instructed by the Rebbe in that same tzetl) mevarer daas a shulchon aruch in this matter.

• to #36

  #36 you are wrong, you may not like what we have but CH is different because the Rebbe instituded elections and the Rabbonim are elected by the people. You can make your own camp but according to halocho you still under the jurisdiction of the elected Rabbonim as members of a BD (not individually).

• Binyomin

  Rabbi Osdaba I admire you for saying you made a mistake all these years.

  Now would be a good time to come clean on the other matter you made a mistake due to pressure namely the Weinstock estate.

  Come out and say you gave away the rebbes MHM money to a group
  of sharks. And add the words “bli shum pikpuk!”

• bring back marlows son to crown hieghts

  i hear it just like in sidney

  they would like him in crown heights

• to 36

  if he reprented 15% they would have the funds to pay him.

  he has 0% true support.

• We get it!!!

  You guys don’t like Rabbi Braun…

• Stalingrad

  It is funny to see how those who suffered so much under Stalin-style oppression are now using the same style to rule.

• Clear

  This is clear!

  The Rebbe did NOT agree with the first draft of the contract where it was stated that Siddur Kidushin may be done only by the Badatz. Because – the Rebbe commented – that is was not done so it the time of Rav Dvorkin either!

  So this was thus REMOVED from the contract.

• Rebbe vs. Dubravsky

  Dubravsky can’t defend himself, so please keep him out of this. Let’s keep it as it is: Brown vs. the Rebbe!

  Or, terror vs. the Rebbe.

  That’s what this is all about.

  I won’t put it past them that they will either disrupt Chupa’s, or that they will issue decrees that those who don’t comply, their children are considered children of sin.

  Mark my words.

  Terror always wins.

• Time for Rabbi Osdoba to Resign

  One of the treasures we have as Chassidim, are our stories of the Rabbeim. We don’t see our stories as children’s fairytales. Our stories are ho’raahs for how to live, and illustrate our Shita in Avodas Hashem. On some level, they are the deepest Torah we have, because stories are accessible by even the least learned. And we know that the higher the Shoresh the lower something comes into the world.
  One of the basic motifs of the Chassidei Chabad story is where the Rebbe tells something to a person, that at first glance the person does not understand, or maybe even seems to make no sense, but shortly the Rebbe’s amazing foresight and ruach hakodesh becomes evident. The point of these stories, as everyone knows, is that when the Rebbe tells you to do something, it’s advisable you do it.
  A lot of times people say things in the Rebbe’s name. When challenged they can’t provide a source. In the matter of the Crown Heights Rabbonim not having exclusive rights to be Mesader Kidushin, not only is there a written source, the makor is a ksav yad from the Rebbe. You want to point to something in the Shulchan Oruch that says the town rabbi has exclusive rights in being Misader Kidushin? I ask you, you think the Rebbe didn’t know what it said in the Shulchan Oruch? The Rebbe, who showed that he knew every Gemoro obscure Midrash and Cabala knew his community far better than we knew him. He must’ve seen that in the years ahead the matter of exclusive rights to Kidushin would cause problems. So he pointed it out to try and prevent these exact problems from occurring. But Rabbi Osdoba didn’t listen. Now I know the Rebbe asked for a lot of things that people didn’t listen to, but is there anyone among us, even the kal shebikalim if the Rebbe asked him to do something, b`ksav yad kodsho, who wouldn’t listen?
  How can it be that the person who is Rov in Kan Tzivo HaShem Es HaBrocho can so blatantly go against what the Rebbe wanted in a Ksav Yad? What does this say about him? How many marriages did Rabbi Osdoba force himself on, perhaps winning the battle, but causing a diminished respect to the institution of the Rabbonim, until we find ourselves in the unprecedented situation in which we find ourselves today? It’s not a question of people not listening to Rabbonim, or Daas Torah, it’s a matter of Frume adult Yidden realizing that the Crown Heights Rabbonim are not people to listen to. Maybe his Smicha is totally legitimate, but I’m sorry, but after such a violation, Rabbi Osdoba can’t continue as our Rov. This is something over which an honorable person would resign. And if not, distasteful as it is, the Kehillah needs to recall Rabbi Osdoba, to remove him from office. The Community can’t just throw away an elderly Yid, and leave him without a Parnosseh because he made such an error, but clearly, he can’t continue as our Moreh DiAssrah. Having admitted he was wrong, if he’s willing, Rabbi Osdoba can work as a Mashgiach so that he can pay his bills, or he find some other Kehillah that doesn’t care about the Rebbe’s express wishes, in which to serve as Rov, but not in Rebbe’s Daled Amos. Rabbi Osdoba needs to resign, effective immediately.

  As for what we should do? There needs to be new elections, for two new separate bottei din. People who see life one way will vote for a set of Rabbonim, and people who see life another way, will vote for a different set of Rabbonim. And this doesn’t have to be acrimonious. Lihavdil, you can register “Democrat” or “Republican,” which means, you only get to vote for candidates on one slate. No one will have to follow Rabbonim they don’t respect. Let people who are comfortable as “Moderates” vote for one set of Rabbonim, Let the people who identify as Mishichists vote for another set of Rabbonim. Plus, people would vote for a tie breaker. By which I mean an independent Rov who doesn’t sit with either Beis Din, but will be the third Rov for whenever there is a need for a Zabla. Thas is, if there’s a dispute among two “Moderates,” they’ll go to “their” Beis Din. If there’s a dispute among two Mishichists, they’ll go to “their” Beis Din. And if there’s a dispute among people from the different factions, then each gets to choose one Rov, plus the tie breaker, someone not from either camp. And let there be two Kashrus organizations. There are so many in America, what difference does one more make? If you feel you’re an independent (someone who won’t submit to either panels of Rabbonim) then these elections probably aren’t for you.
  This is such a long comment it should probably be an OP-ED.

• DaasTorah

  Why do you people live in such a horrible place as NYC? Move away and get away from the drama!

• CH resident

  to #27 I made 7 chasunas in Crown Heights and not one had these rabbonim mesaer kedushin. I guess they knew not to give us a hard time.

• Better then better question

  Number 32 – Stop being foolish. The fact is that Rabbi Osdoba signed a document that he will listen to the psak of the zablo BD and that he will never go to any different BD regarding this matter. Therefore it is clear that 1. He HAS TO LISTEN and ACCEPT the psak. 2. If he has any claim or question he MUST go back to the zablo for new deliberations. If he really wants justice and sholom and end the machloikes, he should formally request, in writing, to present in front of the Zablo Rabbonim his claims and questions. So far he is showing that he CAN”T LOOSE and he’s obviously not sure of himself succeeding in proving his case. As the situations stands now leaving it hanging and using another beis din knowing that the other side will only go back to the zablo (where he is afraid of going) is for him the best chance he has in making himself believe he is a winner.

• What is a Rabbi

  A rabbi is a man who tries to lead the Yidden to Geulaa. He is knowledgeable kind caring and means what he says.PERIOD

• Yossi

  Years ago when I got married my grandfather was a respected rov and I wanted him to be mesdeh kudushin and rabbi osduba put up a fight it all about the $$$$$. And. When he got paid he allowed all of a sudden he erred Please. I’m no fan of the bal matchlock is Brun bug give me a break.

• # 51

  A. Rabbi Osdoba is not the one who called Braun to an IKUL (not a DIN TORAH – very different)members of the community who were not at all under the psad called braun to the IKUL.
  B. Rabbi Rosenberg himself said that braun should go to the din Torah/ Ikul… check out this link http://www.crownheights.inf…

• 27

  To 50

  Are you related to a big Rav? Do you have protektzia? we aren’t.It just proves that if you have the right name and enough $ theu wont start up with you. The rest of us are harassed if we dare to challenge them & dont follow their corrupt politics. I just couldn’t do it to my kids so i backed down but we got the last laugh we didn’t give them any $. They can’t force you to pay to have someone you despise do it. When rabbi osdoba tried to wish me a mazeltov after the chupah i turned my back on him. i dont want his mazel tov. Corrupt garbage all of them.

• STOP the madness, PLEASE!!

  So not enough YOUNG people are dying in the community??? You want more??? Why in G-d’s name are you bring on MORE and MORE machlokes???? And the Rabbonim (ALL the Rabbonim) need to work TOGETHER to stop the madness!!

• To #49

  I agree with you. I hate New York. Brooklyn is an overcrowded DUMP full of people who think it’s the greatest place in the world. But the Rebbe told me I have to live here and while I’d move in a second, how can I go against the Rebbe’s advice?

• mottle

  R Osdoba used to insist on being Mesader Kidushin. When other rabonim had family chasunas and wanted to be mesader kidushin they had to pay him off.

  That said it is good to have a fixed rov or beis din to ensure people don’t get married who are not Jewish etc. – not every yutz knows to check yichus etc. At the very least anyone getting married in CH should register somehow with BD of CH like the rabanut in Israel or LBD in England

• @#55

  You lying. Rabbi Osdoba, never does that – forces people… its only braun and shwei who do it

• To $59, find out the truth

  #59, face the truth. they all do it, and now suddenly R’ Osdoba had an epiphany. This issue has been simmering since 1986 after the first election. This letter from the Rebbe was well known, and B”H someone finally had the guts to print it. The Rebbe stated clearly to R’ Eliezer Zirkind that u can’t give any new rabbonim in CH a power that R’ ZS Dvorkin did not have. and since it is known that regarding siddur kiddushin CH was always different, u can’t say that new rabbonim have the exclusive on siddur kiddushin. this was ignored for many yrs by the rabbonim, and they used terror tactics to force it. After R’ Marlow passed away and the subsequent machlokes, they couldn’t force the issue so many people ignored them.

  My family from out of town wanted a very choshive rov/shilach to be mesader kiddushin. both sides were from outside NY so there was no CH issue. they asked R’ Marlow and he said I don’t mind but i can guarantee u that R’ Osdoba will never agree. and that’s exactly what happened. Don’t make R’ Osdoba to some tzaddik in this issue, he was the one who forced everyone to use the rabbonim.

• to 60

  i know another story personally, actually quite a few when shvei didnt let an out of town Rav be Mesader Kedushin and Rabbi osdoba said its fine, go right ahead with it.

  besides, its not so clear about this letter of the rebbe saying that its not in the rabbonims hands. its debateable, because there is another letter of the rebbe where something different is written. there is a certain say a Rav does have.

  I also think, you can tell the difference between a Rav telling you to do something, and blackmailing you to do it – what shwei and braun do

• Halocho

  The halocho is clear you must have reshus from the more deasro and you have to pay them.

• retraction

  Kol zman Rabbi Osdoba doesnt retract himself his psak stays and he has to do it the same way he did it then in writting then he needs also the approval of the other 2 rabbonim of the bd.

• sorry... to burst your bubble

  braun is not yet a Rav. His issue wasn’t yet resolved. he stayed away from a completely Halachic Din Torah which even Rabbi Rosenberg said he should go to

• Takono

  What blackmailing you are talking about? There is a takono made by the BD and no Rov can be mevatel this takono by himself it must be done by the BD. Even without a takono Rabbi Osdoba can give up HIS rights and schar but he can’t give permision until permision is granted by the other Rabbonim.

• to 60

  You are talking non sense! The power of sidur kidushin by the moro deasro is a clear din in the Ramo. There are many tshuves about this issue. This is a takono from the times of Rabeinu Tam and there is very dangerous kpeides and actual facts (L”A) that achroinim bring for one that does it with out permision. Some even question the validity of the kidushin. RZSD was the moro deasro and had the full power given to him by the Ramo and the BD has the same power as RZSD. I heard from a yungerman (D.E.)that he asked RZSD permision for his father to be mesader kidushin by is own chupo, his father was a very well known real chsidisher yid and a big lamdan, yere shomaim, a bal mesirus nefesh in Russia etc. RZSD said to him tell me, the shayles that you are going to have after you get married will you also ask your father or you will come to me? And did not allowed it. Even when he was sick and couldn’t be mesader kidushin he only let certain Rabbonim to do it and other Rabbonim he specifically said no.

• to 54

  A&B are FALSE! It is Black on White a fact that Rabbi Osdoba did take him to a DT to a new BD which he’s not allowed to do. And it is a fact also written Black on White that Rabbi Rosenberg never said to follow the yikul and never said that he has to go to a DT by another BD.

• title in use

  #3 that title is in use by Rabbi Shlomo Segal Shlita

• to to 54

  How can you say its false? – just take look at the summons!
  the link is completely true, look at it if you care to know the truth

• to 79

  How can I say it’s false? because it is. You have to see the all picture and not relay on the internet. Let me quote from same crownheights.info from may 22 2012: “The summons to the Din Torah came on behalf of Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba, along with a number of askanim in Crown Heights, …” So tell me if it is false to say that Rabbi Osdoba did not call to a DT”. The problem is not the calling someone to a DT the problem is that 1. He must go to the BD of zablo and cannot go elsewhere like he’s doing and B. Till he demands the DT by the Zablo BD and the BD of zablo issues a psak he must comply with the current psak.

• to #65

  Let me make it clear. Rabbi Rosenberg never said that they have to go to another BD. He said if any of the sides has claims they have the right to bring it back to the table and deal with it in a normal DT manner in the presence of all 5 Rabbonim. The question is; why is Rabbi Osdoba going elsewhere and wasting time and inflaming the machloikes? Everybody is waiting for him to go back with his claims to the zablo BD. To the DT he was forced by the court to go otherwise he wouldn’t go and looks like that this time he wants to be forced again.

• oy tate zise in himmel hob rachmones!!!

  oy vey zmir!!!!!!!!!!!!
  and THIS is going to bring moshiach????????
  oyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

• It breaks my heart

  in the gemorrah it says that even a Goy can be misader kidushin as long as they know the halachis!

  Its a ceremonial position that anyone could do, but it has the prestige and honor.. obviously the rabbis want to have the sole rights on something so personal and intimate and the furthest thing from their business.

  This i how they control you, first by your wedding, then what kind of education you kids are allowed etc.

  Enough is Enough. the Rebbe would very disappointed in the leaders he left us.
  Hashem help us